Evidence of meeting #26 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was office.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer , Executive Office, Passport Canada
You're talking about the public accounts committee?
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer , Executive Office, Passport Canada
I assume you're referring to issues that have been raised by the Auditor General in her past report. Those answers we have provided to the public accounts committee.
Basically there were four main elements, if my memory serves me well. The first one was the capacity we have to check vital statistics electronically with provinces and with other federal agencies like the RCMP and Correctional Service of Canada. A second element was on our HR strategy, the need for a long-term strategy for human resources. The third one was ensuring that our processes have integrity and checks built in. The fourth one was contingency planning for June 2009.
When it comes to sharing information with provinces on vital statistics, that's a much larger issue than just Passport Canada. It's a file that has been transferred to the Treasury Board Secretariat, and there's a policy being developed for the whole of the public service on that issue.
With regard to the integrity of the process, right now we are conducting a full review of our issuance process. There's also an audit being done internally on the issuance process. Significant improvement has been made, regardless of the fact that we're still waiting for the results of these two studies.
When it comes to getting ready for 2009, last year we significantly increased our capacity to deliver the number of passports that are required by Canadians.
One component I forgot, which I think is one thing the Auditor General raised, was access to the database and the fact that too many people had access to our database. We have implemented a new process through which we confirm on a regular basis that people who have access to the database need that access. For instance, I do not have access to the database of Passport Canada, as I'm not a passport officer. We have put in place a measure that prevents people from accessing the database if there's no need for them to do so.
10 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you for coming. I recognize Mr. McDonald as I worked with him at the International Service Branch of Citizenship and Immigration Canada. I will try to come up with a question to ask this former colleague, but before I do, I would like to ask a question about services.
Earlier mention was made about the responsibilities assumed by Service Canada. Could you forward us this information and specify how much this partnership with Service Canada costs you? Should you have this information available now, that would be great. I would like you to provide us with a ballpark figure and then you could provide the details to the committee.
10 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer , Executive Office, Passport Canada
Madam Chair, the arrangement that we have with Service Canada has been in effect for approximately two years. This is a pilot arrangement given that, when the idea was launched, certain facts had not yet been confirmed. This is why Service Canada services were provided to us free of charge for the past two years. Service Canada bore the costs of service delivery.
The order on passports will be amended in order to confirm that Service Canada is authorized to provide services on our behalf. This will be the first change. We are in the process of negotiating the details of the services that are to be provided with Service Canada. In addition to being the receiving agent, this organization will verify the authenticity of the documents accompanying the passport application. As part of the current negotiating process, we are specifying the costs involved and the funding that will be required by Service Canada. This funding will be the responsibility of Passport Canada and not Service Canada. We will assume the cost for some things, for example, the volume of applications. I have last year's statistics with me. That may provide you with an overview of the situation.
10 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
You can just give them to the committee at the end of the meeting.
Let's talk about processing times. For example, 80% of cases are processed within a certain period of time, 15% are processed within another timeframe, and finally, the remaining 5% of cases, which are usually the hardest, are processed within yet another timeframe.
Our offices are located near Pointe-Claire, and I'm really happy about that because before, we had to go to Ville-Saint-Laurent and battle the West Island traffic. In my riding, a number of people don't have a vehicle. As you can see, getting to your offices is not always easy. You have to take the train or the bus, and crossing the bridge takes around an hour.
We deal with a number of cases submitted by people who come to our office. I live near Ontario. So we're talking about border services. At the Hawkesbury Hospital, it used to be the nuns who registered births. For reasons unknown, they made changes to those documents. Without a marriage or death or court order, the Ontario authorities don't provide the documents necessary to facilitate identification of individuals. That explains why we have had to deal with a lot of difficult situations, which are part of the 5% of cases. These are people who have a hard time getting their passport because a change was made to their name and they only found out about it when requesting documents like a baptismal certificate, for example. When these people apply for the official document, it's a nightmare.
Personally, for a number of years, among other things I have done since being elected, I have been dealing with the so-called lost Canadians file. There are around 250,000 of them in Canada, be they war brides, people whose birth was incorrectly recorded by National Defence, or people whose parents perhaps did not record their birth properly. These people were born in a hospital near the U.S. border. We deal with these difficult cases in our offices. The online service for members of Parliament does not always give adequate answers to our questions. I'm trying to find out whether it would be possible to have better coordination with members' offices. We know our constituents.
Is it necessary to become a commissioner for oaths? In my office, some of my assistants take oaths for constituents who are asking us to help them to sort out their file. Recently, I dealt with a case that was settled with a court order and an oath, but do you have to go that far to prove your identity? I'd like you to tell me about the processing not of the 80% of applications, since you get that done. I'm more interested in processing times for difficult cases. What mechanisms to do you intend to use to help constituents find their way through this and get service?
10:05 a.m.
Gary McDonald Director General, Policy and Planning Bureau, Passport Canada
Certainly, thank you.
It goes without saying that these are difficult cases for us too. We have to deal with the files of people who don't have the necessary documentation to establish their citizenship. Under the Canadian Passport Order, a passport application begins with presentation of proof of citizenship. All the cases of loss of citizenship that you mentioned are a bit difficult, because we don't determine citizenship per se. It's Citizenship and Immigration or the provinces that are responsible for determining the citizenship of people born in Canada.
We have some flexibility. In urgent cases, if a determination is made that the individual is acting in good faith and is a Canadian citizen, we can issue that individual a passport of limited validity, until that individual makes the necessary arrangements to get the required documentation. We always try to be reasonable. We do say no in some cases. It is up to the officer and the manager to decide whether to take the risk of issuing a passport to someone who doesn't have the necessary documentation.
Since the events of September 11, 2001, we have been working with all of the provinces in order to create national standards for birth registration. That work is starting to produce some results. The most difficult case to resolve is that of an adult who is born here, who would like to get a birth certificate, but for whom there is no file. It's also hard for the provinces. We try to be reasonable, because we want to help the public, but we have to keep in mind that there are fraudsters and criminals out there.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks to each of you for coming today.
It's pretty obvious we still have many challenges, and yet I want to acknowledge the great work that has been done in the past in terms of some of the simplifications, especially to the renewal application process and also to your guarantor policy. It seemed like a really good move, and we are hearing today that not only is it simplifying the process, it also actually increases your ability to check the validity of the person. I think that's good news for all Canadians.
Let me say, from a personal perspective, I have absolutely no complaints about Passport Canada. I am from Kitchener, and I have received a number of unsolicited thank-yous in my office for the work that Passport Canada does in my city. So I just want to balance that off with some of the concerns that I'm sure we will continue to hear for some time.
I have a question regarding the turnover as it relates to one of your 33 regional offices, compared with the Gatineau offices. Is there a large difference in terms of the turnover rates in one of your regional offices in contrast to the central office, percentage-wise?
10:10 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Operations Bureau, Passport Canada
The turnover rate is really driven by the economic conditions of the city.
We have a larger turnover, as would be expected, in Alberta right now than we do, for example, in some parts of Ontario. We haven't had any turnover in our Windsor office in about seven years, as an example.
In our Gatineau office, because our employees tend to be bilingual—the federal government is here—they have lots of opportunities. So we can be a bit of a revolving door for people who want to go on to different types of work, not only to different opportunities. And that is a bit of a problem. We do find that as we make the work more interesting and the level of stress has gone down, the turnover rate is also reducing. But it is a problem, there is absolutely no doubt.
There is a cost to training and retraining people that we have to bear annually. The security risk is less of a concern, as the majority of people go on to other jobs within the federal civil service and they are still bound by their secret security clearance. We ensure that anybody who's involved in the passport-issuing process is secret-cleared.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
But the turnover rate would seem, then, to follow more the economy of the general area than the fact that they're in a major urban centre or in a regional office.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
I want to clarify one comment that I thought one of you made in terms of online renewal. Is online renewal available from my computer to Passport Canada or from a regional office to Passport Canada? I was under the impression I still needed to print out my application process and take it in or mail it.
10:10 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Operations Bureau, Passport Canada
You do, but fewer errors are made on that application form. All the questions are answered. That's one of our biggest problems—people skip questions because they think they don't apply to them. One of the requirements for issuing a passport is that every part of the form must be filled out.
So there are some business rules within the software that cause the reduction of errors. Because of that, there's a lower reduction rate.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Okay.
On page four of your comments today, in the last paragraph before the last section, “Looking Ahead”, you say that Passport Canada now has the option of extending the validity of passports already in circulation. Could you expand on that? I was not aware that this was one of the services available to Canadians.
10:10 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer , Executive Office, Passport Canada
Basically, the Canadian passport order stipulates that a passport shall last for five years. As we get closer to June 2009, we are concerned that people may apply en masse. We have significantly increased our capacity. On a monthly basis we can issue about 450,000 passports. If we were to receive 800,000 passports in a month, there would be a backlog. We would fall behind significantly.
We've asked for a change in the passport order, so that if we were inundated with demand, we could put a special label in the passport and extend its validity. This would allow people to travel as we process their regular applications. We would use this measure only if there was a requirement for it.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer , Executive Office, Passport Canada
It would be a temporary measure, an emergency measure.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
We can always argue about the passport fee, whether it's $62 or $87, but I'm more concerned about how our passport fees compare with those of some of the other G-8 countries.
10:10 a.m.
Director General, Policy and Planning Bureau, Passport Canada
A U.S. passport is $100 U.S., about $102 or $103 Canadian.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Director General, Policy and Planning Bureau, Passport Canada
That is their total fee. These are some of the fees: $100 U.S. for a U.S. passport; 72 pounds for a U.K. passport, which is $145; approximately $170 Canadian for an Australian or New Zealand passport.
Those are the ones that I know off the top of my head. If you'd like a more comprehensive list, we can provide it to you.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
I just wondered if we were in the ballpark or low or high. Judging from the ones you've shared, it's obvious that we have a good deal here.
