Government Operations Committee on June 17th, 2008

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I have two comments before I wrap things up. Mr. Powell came before the committee and called for an investigation. This motion calls for the exact same thing.

Let me explain the rationale for the first part of the motion. Last year, we called for a moratorium on the sale of federal buildings. Things started to happen over the summer. I'm concerned that again things will happen during the summer, even if we ask that operations be put on hold temporarily. I do not want to see a repeat of last summer. That's the reason for the first part of the motion. I would very much hope that the motion has the committee's support.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We'll have Mr. Kramp first and then Mr. Albrecht.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

I recognize the intent of this. I think the motion was premature, and it was honestly made before the witnesses' testimony. But as such, I might suggest a potential compromise that I think would work. It follows along with what Mr. Angus was thinking.

We heard testimony, obviously, that we have a consultation process in place. There were actual timeframes allocated to that. It was mentioned by PWGSC that consultations were going to take place in August and September of this year. Then, of course, it would be 2009 before they went to a potential RFP.

I would like to suggest that this committee, after having heard the testimony today, invite the witnesses who were here today and/or others, at the committee's discretion, to come back so that we can see two things: we want an indication that there was active participation and a consultation process, and then, of course, we'll want to see the general direction of the consultation process after that.

We want to be able to make sure that we have adequate information going forward and adequate representation from both sides of the spectrum. I think it would be incumbent upon and the responsibility of this committee to bring witnesses back after the consultation process to see if we're satisfied with it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Kramp, this isn't the same as the motion before us. That's a different motion.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

I'm not even suggesting a motion. I'm just bringing that to the committee agenda, but I do believe that if we were to go in that particular direction, it would make this motion redundant.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Go ahead, Mr. Albrecht.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Could we have clarification, Madam Chair, as to what the motion before us is?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We're now looking at the first part of the motion, which is that “the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates recommend to the government to postpone the implementation of its policy aimed at bundling the procurement of IT products and services”.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

If that's the motion, Madam Chair, I would agree that this is totally redundant. We've already heard our witnesses say that this is what they're going to do. I don't understand why we would want to put it through a motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Yes, Mr. Moore.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I would just say....

I do understand what Ms. Bourgeois is trying to do, but I don't think the motion as it is currently worded makes a great deal of sense. Ms. saint pierre, the ADM, has clearly said that nothing is going to happen until 2009. Nothing is going to happen this summer.

Even if the government decided today that we wanted to take action on this, it doesn't happen like that over a summer. I mean, there still has to be a request for proposal, an examination, and so on.

She draws a comparison with regard to the government buildings. That's an issue....

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

She said that a decision has already been made.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

A request for proposal hasn't yet been written, let alone issued, let alone had submissions, let alone been debated and examined, let alone gone to Treasury Board. I mean, the idea that this is.... Anyhow, she's not listening, so what difference does it make to anyone?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Angus wanted to say something, I think.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes. Again, I think we need to make sure that.... I think the TPG thing is a separate issue. Let's agree that that's....

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

It's taken out already.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes. I would suggest it say that the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates recommend to the government that it bring forward to this committee an action plan on the installation of the policy of regrouping of purchases and the process of acquisition and data, blah, blah, blah, period.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

So you're amending the motion now?

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes.

I understand Madame Bourgeois' concern about something moving ahead us of in the summer and our being left on the sidelines, but we heard a very clear commitment from the department that they would bring back a plan. We heard from the government side that they would be willing to bring back the witnesses who raised the concerns.

I would say if something happens in the summer and we're left out in the cold and this moves forward, then there's going to be a political hellstorm. I think we have to assume that we're working on the same page here and that come the fall, when we meet again, this motion will allow us then to bring this back with the witnesses, and we can assess--

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Your proposition is to remove the portion “to postpone the implementation of its policy aimed at bundling the procurement of IT products and services”, and you would replace it with “That the government bring forward its action plan...”

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

It would be “on the regrouping of purchases”, blah, blah, blah, “to this committee”. Actually, it should be, as they said, “prior to moving forward”.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Both elements must be present.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Then our committee is doing our job. We have to raise these concerns; we have to “squeeze the Charmin”, as the old 1970s ad expressed it. We've got a commitment to come back. In the fall we will know whether those concerns were addressed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Go ahead, Mr. Kramp.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Just--