Government Operations Committee on Nov. 28th, 2007

[Wayne Wouters]

That's what I thought on my way, that you've been in many of those schools yourselves.

Thank you for your invitation to appear before your committee on the Treasury Board portfolio partners supplementary estimates (A).

I am pleased to have with me today Rick Burton and Ginette Sylvestre. Rick is Vice-President of the Human Resource Management Modernization Branch at the Canada Public Service Agency.

You all know David Moloney, assistant secretary, expenditure management sector. I also have with me today Alister Smith, who is assistant secretary, corporate priorities and planning, and Kelly Gillis, who is the executive director of corporate services for Finance and the Treasury Board Secretariat.

The Treasury Board portfolio partners presented today, which have requests in the supplementary estimates, are as follows. It's for the Treasury Board Secretariat, the Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner, and the Canada Public Service Agency, which is listed in the estimates as the Public Service Human Resource Management Agency of Canada.

The Treasury Board Secretariat's estimates reflect its responsibilities for ensuring that the government is well managed and accountable and that resources are allocated to achieve results.

As the “management board” of government, TBS is strengthening governance, accountability and management practices through a number of management initiatives.

These include the implementation of the Federal Accountability Act and action plan, and the refinement of the management accountability framework, which is a tool for assessing departments' management capacities and performance.

As the budget office, the Treasury Board Secretariat is strengthening results-based expenditure management. To this end, the government has launched a new expenditure management system that will dramatically change the way government manages taxpayers' dollars and support: management for results, decision-making for results, and reporting for results.

The key objective of the new expenditure management system is to ensure that parliamentarians, ministers, and their departments have the information they need to make sound decisions on the use of government funds.

The Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner is responsible for providing a means and mechanism for public servants to make disclosures concerning potential wrongdoing in their workplace and to be protected from reprisal for making such disclosures.

The Office of the Registrar of Lobbyists has responsibility for establishing and maintaining registry under the Lobbyists Registration Act, which includes the information on registered lobbyists and their activities that are required under the act. The registrar has assumed the former roles of the ethics counsellor under the act, including responsibility for the development of the Lobbyists Code of Conduct and for overseeing compliance with the code of conduct.

The Canada Public Service Agency is responsible for modernizing and fostering continuing excellence in people management and leadership across the public service.

The Government of Canada and the President of the Treasury Board made key commitments to Canadians through Budget 2007 and through the Treasury Board portfolio's reports on plans and priorities.

Funding sought through these supplementary estimates (A) supports these commitments. The 2007-08 supplementary estimates (A) that have been tabled in the House request the approval of $1.685 billion for the Treasury Board Secretariat, $7.9 million for the Office of the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner, $1.2 million for the Office of the Registrar of Lobbyists, and $23.1 million for the Canada Public Service Agency.

The combined total of this request is $1.72 billion, the bulk of which results from the creation of two new central votes that support expenditure management renewal efforts: one for the operating carry forward, an amount of $1.2 billion, and another for paylist requirements, an amount of $500 million.

The first of these votes provides a single transparent request on behalf of the departments and agencies with operating budget carry forward requirements. These were previously requested by each individual department through their supplementary estimates.

The second is designed to transfer funding to departments for paylist requirements that were formerly funded via Treasury Board vote 5.

I want to emphasize that the creation of these two new votes will not lead to increased spending within the government. Instead, it will allow for the removal in future years of approximately $1.7 billion from the supplementary estimates approval process, and these amounts will instead be built into the main estimates via the new central votes. As such, this initiative is fiscally neutral.

Moreover, it supports good management, value for money, and more transparent reporting to Parliament. It will significantly reduce the size of supplementary estimates, something parliamentarians have asked the government to address in the past.

Another major change to TBS authorities includes a net decrease of $232.8 million to Treasury Board vote 2, contributions. This is a result of the transfer of the Toronto waterfront revitalization initiative to Environment Canada.

In order to fulfill our mandate and responsibilities as the employer, we are seeking an increase of $185.5 million to Treasury Board vote 15, compensation adjustments, for flow-through funding to departments and agencies for increased personnel costs resulting from new collective agreements.

A net increase of $20.7 million to Treasury Board vote 10, government-wide initiatives, is also being sought. This is for funding to be transferred to departments and agencies for the implementation of requirements of the new internal audit policy. Strengthening the audit practices and capacity across government is vital to improving new management oversight, a key commitment in our RPP.

Finally, a net increase of $12 million to Treasury Board vote 1, operating expenditures, is being sought for new Treasury Board Secretariat initiatives and operations. This includes $4.7 million for the implementation of the Federal Accountability Act and action plan and $2.8 million for the implementation of the Public Service Modernization Act, as well as a few other key initiatives.

These initiatives are crucial to improving the effectiveness of government, as well as enhancing Canadians' trust and confidence in government, another key commitment set out in our RPP.

Madam Chair, these are the key changes to Treasury Board Secretariat authorities in support of our RPP commitments. My colleagues and I now would be prepared to address any questions you may have on these estimates.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Merci.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Mr. Burton, did you have a few words?

[Rick Burton, Vice-President, Human Resource Management Modernization Branch, Canada Public Service Agency]

I do, in fact.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Are they few, few, few?

[Rick Burton]

Would you like me to go ahead now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

You know, we're just at the first part of the meeting; then we have other guests coming afterwards. We've got the Privy Council Office following, and the Public Service Labour Relations Board at 4:30 or 4:45.

[Rick Burton]

Okay. I will be brief.

Good afternoon, and thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm pleased to appear before your committee today to discuss the 2007-08 supplementary estimates for the Canada Public Service Agency.

As mentioned earlier, I'm accompanied by Ginette Sylvestre, our senior financial officer at the agency.

As you know, the Canada Public Service Agency is a relatively young human resource organization. It was established in 2003.

As one of the strategic arms of the Treasury Board, as Wayne Wouters mentioned, our mandate is to support the renewal of leadership and excellence in people management in the public service, the key priority of the Clerk of the Privy Council. We are involved in rejuvenating many of the essential building blocks of HR management, including values and ethics, official languages, employment equity, HR planning, and job classification, and we work very closely with our colleagues in the Treasury Board Secretariat who have other key important elements of HR management. We also work very closely with the Canada School of Public Service as well as the Public Service Commission.

The agency's main estimates for 2007-08 total $69.1 million. The planned spending did not reflect the then unapproved $23.1 million in supplementary estimates. With these additions, the agency's total authorities for 2007-08 would be $92.2 million.

In the supplementary estimates we're asking for additional funding to continue the implementation of two pieces of legislation that are critical to the functioning of the public service, the first being the Public Service Modernization Act and the second being the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act.

For the Public Service Modernization Act, we are seeking $17.384 million to continue the delivery of programs for our agency to fulfill the legislative obligations under the act and $2.82 million for related activities that are essential to its continued implementation.

I'd like to take a moment to briefly explain the Public Service Modernization Act and why it is such a key piece of HR legislation.

The public service HR system had become outdated and cumbersome. In addition, it was inefficient and did not allow us to respond quickly to an increasingly competitive labour market, as well as growing public expectations for service excellence.

These are some of the drivers requiring the public service to rethink how it recruits, develops, manages and retains its employees.

These are the reasons that gave birth to the Public Service Modernization Act in 2003, and these reasons still apply to a great extent today.

The Public Service Modernization Act represents the single biggest changed public service human resource management in more than 35 years. The act was designed to modernize staffing, to promote more collaborative labour management relations, to focus on learning and training for employees at all levels, and to clarify and strengthen the roles and accountability of managers.

The act is comprised of four individual acts, key among them being the new Public Service Employment Act and the Public Service Labour Relations Act.

The act provides the legislative framework to modernize our HR policies and processes. In effect, it is the foundation and the enabler of renewal. It's the cornerstone of our larger and ongoing strategy to equip the public service to serve the changing needs of Canadians with excellence.

Implementation of the act requires a shift in public service culture, from rules-based to values-based. While no one expected the Public Service Modernization Act to receive such a major cultural shift in the year and a half since it has come into force, we need to bring this new infrastructure to maturity and to take full advantage of the benefits of the act. We are continuing to work to ensure that managers and HR professionals are well equipped with the tools and advice they need to hire the right people at the right time.

We know we're on the right track. We're receiving recognition for our efforts. In fact, at a government technology conference here in Ottawa in October, an international event, the agency's work in re-engineering HR infrastructure was praised. Only this fall, agency officials, in concert with the Public Service Commission, have organized some very successful workshops across Canada to increase understanding of the shifting roles and responsibility of managers and HR professionals, as well as the flexibilities embedded in the new Public Service Employment Act.

The other area in which we are asking for supplementary funding of $2.898 million is to support the implementation of the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act. The purpose of this act is to encourage employees in the public sector to come forward if they have reasons to believe that serious wrongdoing has taken place and to provide protection to them against reprisal when they do so. It also provides a fair and objective process for those against whom allegations are made.

Implementation of the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act will help to enhance a sustained and supported ethical culture in the public service and increase public trust in our organizations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We had a presentation already on that.

[Rick Burton]

The additional funding we're seeking will support communication with public servants concerning their rights under this act and the way to exercise those rights.

That concludes my opening remarks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Holland.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Thank you, Mrs. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing today.

You may not be able to answer all of these questions, but if you can't answer them, perhaps you can forward the information to committee or to me.

The first item I wanted to pursue contained within the supplementary estimates was a line item for funding for the sale and leaseback of office complexes and land. Now, obviously this is supposed to be a money-maker for the government. Contained within those estimates is an additional provision of $32,351,000. I'm wondering what is the reason for that. What's the logic of it?

Do you have any information on that?

[Wayne Wouters]

I don't know what the specific line item is, whether that is to ours or Public Works.

Oh, it's not to ours, so that is Public Works. I don't have the details on what the requirement is for Public Works and Government Services Canada for that.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Okay. Again, some of these you may not be able to provide, but if you could get back to me or forward it to the department to get back to me, I'd appreciate it.

The second is also within the supplementary estimates, an amount for government-wide advertising. That isn't broken down, and I'm wondering if we could get a breakdown of that, particularly for Defence, CIDA, HRSD, Environment, and Finance.

[Wayne Wouters]

I believe the Privy Council Office will be here at 4:30. They have overall responsibility for that, so perhaps, Madam Chair, the honourable member may want to raise that question with our PCO colleagues.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Okay.

Another is public opinion and polling, that figure. I didn't see the total amount for public opinion and polling, as well as what percentage would be sole-sourced contracts.

[Wayne Wouters]

Again, I believe the Privy Council Office would have that information.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

The question also is whether or not an MOU has been signed between the Government of Canada and the provinces with respect to the $1.5 billion eco-trust. If that has been signed, how much has actually flowed to the provinces at this point?

[Wayne Wouters]

Again, I apologize, but that would not be part of our responsibilities. I believe the Ministry of Transport would have that information.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

As I say, these are questions I have with the supplementary estimates. I appreciate that you don't have them, but I'm trying to seek them. Perhaps you could pass them along.

[Wayne Wouters]

Yes. If you want, we can pass all this information on to the relevant departments and they can follow up and ensure the information is provided to you.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Silva, do you have any questions? He hasn't taken up all of his time. You have about five minutes.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Great. Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to also thank the witnesses for coming forward and making their presentation.

I've gone through the estimates, and I must say, it wasn't easy to go through them all. I had a series of issues concerning them, but I will restrict myself just to basic issues of Treasury Board. I realize that different critics in different committees will be dealing with different parts of the estimates, so I'll leave those up to them.

But on the issue of Treasury Board, on page 89 of the supplementary estimates there is funding, I think over $3 million, for a centre of regulatory expertise within the Treasury Board Secretariat. Part of this centre is supposed to ensure compliance with the commitments and directions set out in, I presume, the implementation of cabinet directives.

I just want to know a little about the history of this centre and what it's supposed to do. I'm also a little confused about this explanation, because it talks about ensuring compliance with the commitments and directions set out in the directives. I thought that was always the role of the Treasury Board, so why do we need a centre to comply with directives when it was always the role of the Treasury Board to comply with the directives?

[Wayne Wouters]

I'm going to ask Michael Presley, who is with our regulatory affairs group, to respond to your questions.

[Michael Presley, Executive Director, Regulatory Affairs, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you for the question.

In Budget 2007 the government announced three fairly significant regulatory reform initiatives. One was a major project review office led by Natural Resources Canada.

A second was a paper reduction exercise led by the Department of Industry.

A third was a more comprehensive approach. It wasn't sector specific or short term; it was a cabinet directive on streamlining regulations. It called for some changes from the previous regulatory approach, specifically a more streamlined approach that would be much more sensitive in terms of the business impact; it would be more specific, quantified, monetized in terms of the benefits and costs of the regulations, and at the same time it would ensure protection with respect to public good on environment, safety, and health. It was a very specific and demanding cabinet directive with respect to regulatory reform.

This centre, which in this current year constitutes about $750,000 of that figure you quoted, has been established essentially to provide experts to departments to help them with complying with the benefit-cost analysis for requirements, for example, to do better performance measurement or develop service standards for those that are being regulated or applying for permits or approvals.

This kind of expertise is often hard to find. So rather than replicating that talent base in 30 different departments, it made more sense to establish a central centre of expertise that could provide that kind of information.

The balance of the resources you refer to are in our department to strengthen our challenge function, but also to enable us to provide guides, more assistance. It is also to develop some curriculum for training within the Canada School of Public Service to aid regulators in complying with the requirements of the directive.