Government Operations Committee on April 2nd, 2009

[Chris Forbes]

Yes, look at the program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

—fund and supervise that project, and then ask them?

[Chris Forbes]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

All right, that's fine. I'll stop there. That's good.

Ms. Hall Findlay.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Great, thank you.

I listened to my colleague talk about the fact that we have answers confirming that yes, the due diligence will be conducted. I just want to stress that the normal due diligence is terrific, but these are abnormal times, and when we're speaking of the $3 billion, this is an abnormal situation. So I would suggest that something more than normal due diligence, at least in terms of timing, is required. We certainly will be looking at this—just as advance warning to you. Things have been speeded up because of these commitments.

I have a separate question about lapsing, but it's tied into the matching aspect of these funds. In terms of the lapsing, I hope we can talk—if I have time—about the Building Canada fund and moneys that haven't been spent. I suspect that's partly because of the matching requirements of some of them, as opposed to the gas tax fund, for example, which doesn't require matching.

In the effort to get money out the door, we have raised a concern a number of times that these moneys in the budget, whether vote 35 or otherwise, will require matching by the provinces and/or municipalities. Can you comment on where we are in that regard? Requiring matching adds to the process. Where are we in terms of commitments made by the provinces and municipalities at this point in time—again with this idea in mind that we're doing these things a little differently in order to get money out the door?

[Tim Sargent]

As you know, the provinces are in the middle of announcing their own budgets right now. We've had budgets by Quebec and Ontario, and I think we're still waiting for Alberta. So it may be a little early yet to get that kind of information, since they're still in the process of making their own commitments. But again, that's something we will be able to provide more information on by the time of the June report.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Sorry to interrupt you, but the June report will be at the end of the period in which the government specifically said we need to have the ability to spend money. I will echo my colleagues' concern that allocating money is not the same thing as spending. We agreed to vote 35, in particular, because of a desire to help the Canadian public by having money go out the door sooner than it would normally go. If you say you can tell us what matching commitments have been made by the end of June, God only knows how long it will take for money to get sent after you get a commitment for matching, just because of the process.

I hate to be abrupt, but the end of June doesn't cut it. So we really want a sense of where we are. I understand the budgeting process of provinces, but they have to have a pretty good idea of what they're committing well before now.

[Alister Smith]

Could I perhaps add to my colleague's comments?

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Sure.

[Alister Smith]

That affects a subset of programs where indeed you do have matching and partnership. There are other programs, such as federal infrastructure, where the money is federal only, and you'd expect to see progress earlier than when you have to have your partners come up with the funds.

A lot of the infrastructure spending is in the Budget Implementation Act, so that may take a little bit longer.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

As distinct from the $3 billion, then?

[Alister Smith]

Right.

It will vary by program in chapter 3. There's a very large array of budget initiatives here—well over a hundred--so it's very hard to generalize about them. Some of them are federal only. Some of them require cost-sharing. Some are very different types of initiatives altogether. There are contribution agreements, yes, but there are also grants. There are all kinds of different mechanisms. But it doesn't mean that all programming is going to be held up to wait for partners. In fact, that's more likely on the infrastructure side than with any of the other measures.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Right, and just to clarify this, the $3 billion under vote 35 only applies.... It's part of the budget implementation bill; it's not outside of the budget. So we know that.

So am I hearing that in order to get out the $3 billion more quickly, it will be less focused on things that would require matching, and more on—

[Alister Smith]

I don't really want to comment on that, because I'm not sure yet. But I would think that's a good general supposition.

At this stage, we have a lot of that infrastructure spending you're focused on in the Budget Implementation Act. The infrastructure stimulus fund and other elements are there, and those are the ones that do require partnership.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

That's all your time.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

We're done? Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

We can come back.

Mr. Anders, for five minutes.

[Rob Anders, Conservative, Calgary West, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair,

I just want to quickly run down some of the reporting or accountability measures—the Treasury Board guidelines, if you will—and then ask three specific questions.

First off, is it correct that programs or projects must be in the economic action plan, and initiatives have to be included in budget 2009, as passed by Parliament?

[Alister Smith]

Correct.

[Rob Anders, Conservative, Calgary West, AB]

Number two, funds can only be allocated between—

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Mr. Anders, it's great that you're doing this, but can you indicate the source of the statements you're making? Are these your rules or somebody else's?

[Rob Anders, Conservative, Calgary West, AB]

Well, these are the rules, as I understand them to be, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Where did you get that list? Can you just inform us of the source?

[Rob Anders, Conservative, Calgary West, AB]

I think these are Treasury Board guidelines. I'm just repeating them, really.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Well maybe we should ask Treasury Board what the guidelines are, unless you know them by heart.