Evidence of meeting #22 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Louis Ranger  Deputy Head, Infrastructure Canada
Alister Smith  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Brian Pagan  Executive Director, Expenditure Operations and Estimates Division, Treasury Board Secretariat

12:55 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Alister Smith

I'm not quite sure it's exactly that. As you alluded, we do not second-guess what's in the budget or whether these are stimulative or not or whether they're the right thing to do or not. Our role is to ensure that if indeed there are funding requirements they can be met appropriately, and in this case, vote 35 provides the bridge funding where there are genuine cash requirements that we can't meet through supplementary estimates (A), for instance, or supplementary estimates (B).

So that's really what it is. There's no additional money. There are no additional policy choices being made. It's really a mechanism to bridge fund.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Yes, that makes me question whether it's worth our mulling over these things to this extent, to tell you the truth.

I have no other questions actually, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Derek Lee

Thank you.

Colleagues, we're close to the top of the hour. We probably have a bit of flex time for a little bit more meeting, but colleagues often have commitments when we get to our planned expiry time and I can't push us very much beyond.

So I'll just look around the table and try to determine whether members would like to continue into another round or a few more questions or whether we can move to an adjournment.

Okay, then I'm going to raise two things. First of all, you have in front of you a motion dealing with the courtesy gift given to the visiting Pakistani delegation. If someone would move that, we'd deal with that. Mr. Warkentin moves the motion.

(Motion agreed to)

The second thing is something I would have addressed had we had more time. Mr. Smith and Mr. Pagan have each—or at least Mr. Smith has—directed our attention to the fact that the real administrative responsibility for the execution of most of this spending here, in terms of accountability, falls to the deputy heads throughout the range of government. While Mr. Smith and Mr. Pagan have good descriptions of these, it would be almost impossible for them to be on top of each of these spending envelopes and to know whether the partner was participating, whether there was a partner, how many jobs had been created, whether money had actually moved into a cheque form or something.

So colleagues may want to consider inviting to one meeting a number of department heads, not for the whole meeting but only to answer questions about a particular project. There are dozens and dozens of projects. I was going to ask about the grant and contribution to the wharf at Digby, Nova Scotia, for example; that came up in questioning earlier. Members would probably have an interest in that, and the purpose would be to drill down and determine whether the federal stimulus money hit the road and where there was job creation, on a regional basis.

So I'm going to ask members to collaborate a little bit and consider a meeting where we would invite a number of these department heads to answer questions about a particular project for maybe 15 minutes each. We could have, for example, two department deputy heads per party. That would give us eight, and if we did it collaboratively we could probably do it. I know we have not yet itemized this as future business, but I'm suggesting this may be the only way our committee is going to actually see where the rubber hits the road.

I would also say we're probably the only committee in Parliament that can do it, given our cross-departmental mandate. So I'll throw it out there and leave it with members to collaborate a little bit and see if we can come up with a list.

Now I see members want to either address this or something related, so I'll turn to my left.

Ms. Hall Findlay.

1 p.m.

Liberal

Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We certainly support that. I think it's an excellent idea. It is a challenge because we just received these.

If we do that, I would ask colleagues to review the supplementary estimates so we can provide input as quickly as possible to you and the clerk as to which departments we would like to come before us. We won't know that until we've had a chance to review, but we should do it quickly.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Derek Lee

Our next two meetings are on estimates and supplementary estimates, with Minister Toews on one day and Minister Paradis from Public Works on the other day.

Mr. Martin.

1 p.m.

NDP

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I can't imagine how it will be fruitful to bring in the department heads to go after a specific local example of infrastructure. It's on par with bringing Ruby Dhalla before the immigration committee to study the issue of immigration with a specific example. I think it's wrong in terms of policy-making and will be fruitless. We don't have the expertise or the background knowledge on any specific project to comment on whether it's well done, worthwhile, has merit, or is meeting any kind of target.

We're getting into the kind of micromanagement you've cautioned about many times, Mr. Chair. I don't think it's a good way to go.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Derek Lee

Okay.

Are there any comments from the government side?

Mr. Warkentin.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB

I think we would like to consult with the other parties on whether it's the general consensus of the committee that we move forward in this way, and try to have a meeting that is constructive and informative.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Derek Lee

Sure. Keep in mind Mr. Martin's comments, as we don't want to be seen as micromanagers here.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB

And we would be opposed to bringing Ruby Dhalla before this committee.

1 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Derek Lee

Okay.

Have we finished our business for today? We're not meeting next week. We'll be in our constituencies. So we'll see you all a couple of weeks from now.

Thank you very much, Mr. Smith and Mr. Pagan, for your contributions today.

We're adjourned.