Government Operations Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2009

[Simon Kennedy]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As I mentioned earlier to the committee, the actual cost of signage is absorbed in the program budgets of individual departments, so we don't have that specific information handy. The Privy Council Office has given guidance to departments to ensure that the signage is appropriate and that they follow the graphic standards.

It is true that, in a number of cases, the infrastructure programming is joint. For example, for a road upgrade, the provincial sign and the federal sign would be side by side. That's not the case in all programs. In some cases, it would only be a federal sign, but in some others it would be joint.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Madam Hall Findlay for five minutes.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Kennedy, you said something that is just astounding to me, about the budget for the website for the information on the projects. We would love to have a website comparable to the one that's being done in the United States, absolutely. The Canadian one doesn't even come close. Maybe with the fact that you've acknowledged that the budget is so tiny and there are so few people, I would just like to point out for the record that today we've learned that the cost of billboards alone in Quebec might be as high as $45 million, compared to what apparently is a very small budget for a website actually telling us about the detail of projects. So there might be an opportunity to spend money a little bit more correctly.

Going back to the content, I want to just highlight some pieces about the Treasury Board communications policy, that all Government of Canada communications must be objective; they must inform the public in an accountable, non-partisan fashion consistent with the principles of Canadian parliamentary democracy; they must ensure that public trust and confidence in the impartiality and integrity of the Public Service of Canada is upheld; and they must avoid conflicts of interest and the appearance or public perception of endorsing or providing a marketing subsidy or any unfair competitive image to any person, organization, or entity outside of government. That would include the Conservative Party of Canada.

May I ask, was it a coincidence that the throne speech was almost identical to the cover of the 2008 Conservative Party platform?

Mr. Kennedy, maybe you were around, or Madame d'Auray.

Was that a coincidence? Yes or no?

[Michelle d'Auray]

I wasn't around for the Speech from the Throne and this, but I would say, if I can indicate in terms of the government communications policy or the FIP, there are no prescriptions or elements that determine colour, font, or format. So it is really up to each government to determine the nature of the presentation elements they will use.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Given the policies that require non-partisanship, I would suggest that it's a rather striking comparison.

I would also ask if it was a coincidence that the Government of Canada website and the Conservative Party website, given the millions of colours that can be chosen from, chose a pigment that is exactly the same, out of millions of opportunities, as the colour used by the Conservative Party of Canada.

[Michelle d'Auray]

Again, the policy does not preclude or prescribe the nature of the colour, font, or other elements that are used in government communications.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I will add that one of the requirements in the communications policy is in fact the use of the words “Government of Canada”. Is it in fact part of the communications policy that an official identity of the Government of Canada has now become “the Harper government”, and on that basis, it is somehow acceptable to have well over 9,000 examples of “the Harper government” on government websites and communications?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Again, Madam Chair, according to the policy, the requirements are for the official signature of the government, the image of the government, to be labelled as such. There are no components that prescribe the use of specific wording in terms of the messages and the communications materials as long as the signature and the use of the official symbols are consistent with the policies.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I will accept that there's been a brave attempt to suggest that “the Harper government” has now become a national symbol of Canada, at least in terms of this government's perception, and I will register my significant disagreement with that.

I will also ask this: what part of blaming new technology is acceptable in the question of linking to social networking sites?

It's not a question of technology, and the policy is not silent. The policy deals specifically with non-partisanship. What part of the technology is to blame for linking to a social networking site that isn't the government? The government sites link to Stephen Harper personal social networking sites that link to Conservative Party networking sites. It's the linking.

What part of that in fact complies with the policy?

[Michelle d'Auray]

If I may, the original linkages--I'll turn to my colleague on this--were to the Prime Minister of Canada. Again, if there are some subsequent linkages, those are some of the issues that we've discovered when we've linked to social networking.

For the specifics of the points that you're raising, in particular for this website, I'll perhaps ask my colleague to expand on that.

[Simon Kennedy]

As the Clerk of the Privy Council had mentioned earlier, the government's decision to include the links to the social media sites were in recognition of the extensive use of social media sites by younger Canadians. I think the opposition and others have raised concerns, and so the government has asked us to build social media sites--Twitter, Flickr, YouTube, etc.--that are specifically about the economic action plan.

On the website now, the previous links are now broken. If you go to visit them, you'll get an under construction symbol. We're working to relaunch those sites exclusively dedicated to the economic action plan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Madam Hall Findlay.

We now go to Mr. Warkentin for five minutes.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

I believe Mr. Holder is on the list before I am.

[Wayne Wouters]

Madam Chair, just for clarification, I don't think one of the social networking...was the Conservative Party site. It was the Prime Minister's site. I know that has come up a number of times here today.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

You are right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We'll continue with the questions. Somebody's going to find out what the bells are about.

Go ahead, Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank our guests for attending and for their comments today.

I find you very credible, very sincere. Notwithstanding some of the tone of the dialogue that has taken place today, please let me express my appreciation for the work you do on behalf of Canadians. I think that has to be said, and frankly, should be said more.

There are a couple of things. I'd actually like to salute Mr. Martin and some comments that he made. I want to acknowledge that.

It was rather interesting when you talked about the colours, and some question about colours came up. I think you noted, very ably, that the Canadian flag, a great symbol of this country, seems to look somewhat like another party that happens to be in this country.

Those are beautiful colours, by the way. Don't ever let me suggest otherwise.

To our guests, is there anything in your policies that would prevent the opposition parties from using the same colours, fonts, or styles that are in Canada's current economic action plan?

[Wayne Wouters]

The policy does not apply to members of the opposition. The Treasury Board policies apply to the government.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

So in fact there would be nothing, then, sir, that would prevent opposition parties from using those similar colours if they wanted to take advantage of all the strengths of Canada's economic action plan.

[Michelle d'Auray]

There wouldn't be any element....

I think where we exercise a compliance rule is if somebody, for example, uses a Government of Canada identifier or symbol for their own commercial activities, or starts to misrepresent activities of the government. At that point, we would intervene.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Okay. I think that's a fair comment.

It's rather interesting; I know there has been some reference made to the Prime Minister and piano playing.

Mr. Martin, I'm disappointed. I mean, you're such a thoughtful guy as it relates to the stage. I don't know why you'd be against the arts. But you know, that's a discussion we might have for another time, in fun.

[A voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

I will withdraw that as a comment. It wasn't meant to be inappropriate.

Mr. Wouters said earlier, on signage, that it's been a long-standing practice for the Government of Canada to install signs on infrastructure projects so that people are able to differentiate projects funded by the federal government from other projects.

How long has that been a practice, sir, to your understanding?

[Simon Kennedy]

I will have to return to the committee with the specifics, but certainly past infrastructure programs....

Perhaps the secretary would have more specific comments.

[Michelle d'Auray]

I do have some history of when the first infrastructure program was established. The signage for the Canada infrastructure works program was started within four months of the launch of the initiative, when the first agreements were signed with the provinces.