Government Operations Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2009

[Simon Kennedy]

The government is the one that decides what it wishes to communicate, and wanted to have the links to the social media--

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

But doesn't the PCO run the government's wishes through sort of an ethical filter?

[Simon Kennedy]

We give advice. As both the secretary and the clerk mentioned, we ensure that the communications are done within the confines of the policy.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Did you advise them that it would be a really, really bad idea to put a link to the Prime Minister playing the piano on the Canada action plan website?

[Simon Kennedy]

Well, I think the intention of having the social media links—

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Just yes or no.

In the process of the advice that you give government departments, did anybody say, “That really crosses the line”? Did anybody say, “That offends the sensibility of every Canadian who's going to see that who has half a brain”?

We're getting government propaganda shoved down.... That website's not supposed to be a cheerleader booster for the ruling party. It's supposed to be an information vehicle.

Didn't somebody who is...?

You're new to this job, Mr. Wouters. I respect your career as a deputy minister before, and even before that in the Government of Saskatchewan. Didn't you see something wrong with that?

[Wayne Wouters]

Madam Chair, we're into a new world here with websites. In fact, the policy has not contemplated moving to the new media that we've now seen.

So the government made the decision to include some social media, because it did provide information on the economic action plan--

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

No, it didn't, sir.

[Wayne Wouters]

There was information on the economic action plan.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

“I'll get by with a little help from my friends” has nothing to do with economic recovery.

[Wayne Wouters]

You know, in some ways, many young people in this country--who are difficult to reach, too, in terms of newspapers and sometimes ads—

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Oh, sir, with all due respect—

[Wayne Wouters]

—are on the social media. Therefore, I think the government's decision....

I mean, I'm not here to defend the government's decision. They decided that was in their interest—

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

But you're here to provide an ethical screen for the government's decision. The PCO is supposed to filter that stuff out before it gets to—

[Wayne Wouters]

Can I respond to the question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Go ahead, Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

On a point of order, Madam Chair, we're trying to have a thoughtful dialogue on this.

I know we're trying to bring clarity, but it strikes me that if my colleague Mr. Martin has the wonderful courtesy to ask a question, he should offer the same courtesy to allow them to respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Holder, as I told your colleague last time—

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That's not really a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

—the opportunity to ask questions and interject and stop the witnesses when the witnesses are not giving the answer is the prerogative of the member. It's not a point of order, it's a debate.

Mr. Martin, please continue.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Madam Chair, may I come back on that point of order, please?

If you recall, when you and I discussed this once before, we talked about courtesy around this table with our guests.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Holder, I appreciate that. He's not being rude to the witness.

The witnesses do know that they are here to give answers. If the member does not feel that their answers are relevant, the member is at liberty to interject and stop. That's their right.

So we will not have these points of order regarding the member's right to pose questions.

You may continue, Mr. Martin. I will let you go for a few more minutes.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I will try to let the witnesses answer.

Were you aware, Mr. Wouters, that the links that are connected to the action plan of Canada are in fact links to the Conservative Party of Canada's website, that the social media clips are exactly the same in content as the Conservative view, because they are effectively overseeing a website for the Conservative Party of Canada?

[Wayne Wouters]

I think it's fair to say, Madam Chair, that when these issues were raised with the government, the government removed the connections to those social sites at that time. As a result, the government is now looking at ensuring, in fact, that the information available is for the economic action plan only.

[Michelle d'Auray]

If I may talk about the social networking sites, Madam Chair, what we are finding--and this is where the current policy is silent because they were not prevalent at the time at which the policy was last updated--is that linking to social network sites is actually quite useful in certain instances.

The problem with the social network sites is that they're actually driven by the popularity of the images that happen to be on the site. If we link to a particular set of images, a whole bunch of other images can come in, depending on the popularity. That's why we're now rethinking our approach to linking to social network sites, because in fact we do not control at that point--