Government Operations Committee on April 19th, 2010

[David Moloney]

I must make it clear that there is no question of an envelope for each of our components. In fact, the president and the minister responsible for CIDA are free to look at the way the money is distributed between the various components. They can add money or change the way it is distributed.

For us, the issue is finding the best way to deliver our program. As I mentioned earlier, we are right in the middle of a decentralization project. You mentioned the need to have expertise and experienced staff in the field. As Minister Oda has announced, we are reorganizing our staff and our operational budget.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Do you have links with the others?

You mentioned 170 people in the field, for all of planet Earth. Yet we know that seven-eighths of the people of the planet live in extreme difficulty. The help they need from us is huge.

Will there be more Canadian government employees, from other departments, who will step up to the plate without cutting into CIDA's budget?

[David Moloney]

Some of those officers are, in fact, full-time employees in other departments, but part of the same deployment. It depends on the needs. If CIDA people have the expertise needed, they go. Sometimes, people are hired in the field. At other times, they are employees seconded from the Department of Health or the Department of Finance. We hire and deploy people according to specific needs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We now go to Mr. Brown for five minutes.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm curious about the international context Canada finds itself in. I understand that we're at our highest levels of funding for CIDA thus far, but given the global recession, have other countries taken steps to reduce their international aid? I think I read a report that international aid was actually reduced in the U.K., whereas Canada is maintaining the same high levels.

Do you have any information you could share with us on that from your conversations with other international aid branches of different governments?

[David Moloney]

Certainly it's impossible to predict or look ahead to see how individual governments and individual countries will respond to their financial and fiscal circumstances, but also their priorities.

What I can share with the committee is that the OECD published on April 14 their review of official development assistance in 2009. They mentioned that net ODA rose in a number of European countries. In percentage terms, the largest increases were in France, at 16%; the U.K., 14%; and Finland, 13%. There were also some very significant aid decreases in other European countries, many of them double digit decreases. There were also some major increases outside of Europe—by Korea, for example—and some significant decreases in countries like Australia and New Zealand.

Certainly, individual countries' circumstances and choices generate quite a variety of movements year to year, and of course there are special circumstances as well that show up in these numbers.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

And do you know how we measure up compared with other countries in terms of aid as a percentage of our budget?

[David Moloney]

Our ratio is 0.3%.

Is the member asking about other countries?

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Yes. First, I was wondering if other countries have curtailed their international aid spending because of the global economic recession, and the second question is, how do we measure up, given our current contributions as a percentage of our budget?

[David Moloney]

Based on the 2009 data, Canada ranked 10th out of the 23 development assistance committee members in terms of our ODA volume, down from 9th place in 2008. On the other hand, in terms of the ODA to GNI ratio, Canada increased, moving up a place, from 15th to 14th.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Have there been lessons that have been learned from the last recession in the early 1990s? What was Canada's response during the last recession? Did we see decreases in international aid spending during 1993, 1994, and 1995?

[David Moloney]

Well, the last very short recession that Canada had was just prior to the commitment to double aid. Aid did not grow during that recession; it started to grow the next year.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

But during the actual downturn, were there any cuts made to CIDA? It's always important, I guess, to learn from the past, to see how things were dealt with then and how adverse the consequences were.

[David Moloney]

As I said, we would have to check the record going back to the 1990-91 recession, but we could provide that.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I know the clock says it's 4:27, but I have something to clarify with Mr. Moloney.

In response to the question by Madam Hall Findlay, you promised to give us a breakdown? Is that what you said? We're trying to figure out if you said you would give us a breakdown of the $163,745,000, comprising 39% of your total operating budget? Is that what you said?

[David Moloney]

That's correct. In 2008-09, within these other subsidies and payments, there's a significant charge. What's shown is the $163,745,000. We will provide the breakdown and explain the extraordinary charge.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Fair enough.

Mr. Brown.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Madam Chair, would it be possible to get documents distributed to the committee about CIDA aid levels during previous recessions?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

What years are you asking for, Mr. Brown?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

How about 1988 to 1993?

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

The most recent ones, 1988 to 1995.... We weren't in a recession in 1988.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Moloney, we're not trying to be difficult, but if you have figures showing the trend in the curve of development assistance and if those would help the committee, we would appreciate it.

[David Moloney]

We certainly can, and we'll use Statistics Canada's definition of recessions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Fair enough. Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank you for being here. As you know, this is the study on the freeze of spending envelopes and how it's affecting different departments. We thank you for coming here.

Yes, Mr. Holland.