Evidence of meeting #14 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was clerk.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
I'll turn it over to the clerk to give an answer to that.
4:15 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Marc-Olivier Girard
The committee can request these documents, but if the person or the authority responsible for these documents has concerns about the security issues with regard to the committee, it's going to be up to the committee to decide what it wants to do, exactly what you guys want to do with this concern.
There are several options out there that are available to the committee. There's the possibility of considering these documents in an in camera session, for instance, or maybe specific distribution to the committee, with numbered copies, and at the end of the meeting the clerk would gather all the documents once again. The committee also can decide to treat the documents as confidential pieces of information, which means that at the end of the session they will be kept confidential for 30 years before someone will access it.
Basically, it's going to be up to the committee to decide what it wants to do with the concern that has been communicated to the committee.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Chair, through you again, please, how do we make that distinction in advance when we don't necessarily know the information that is within the documents? Again, I'm coming back to the precedents of other committees or how they've dealt with it. Some people might feel that some information might be more interesting publicly versus not. Is it decided in advance? I can't imagine you can decide it as you go.
I just need some help in understanding how that works. I don't know.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Mr. Holder, my understanding is that the person being requested actually says, “Please do not distribute this because it's commercially...”, or “This is confidential.”
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Chair, I'm not debating, but how would they know that? I say that because when we have guests here and we ask them—it can be a fairly intimidating thing to be in front of a committee, and they don't know.... I would guess, if I were asked to be in front of a committee, without any experience, I wouldn't necessarily know what my rights and responsibilities were.
How do you strike that balance where they know they would have the right to say to this all-powerful, this very important committee...? Is it just a best guess or best luck that they ask the question, or do we advise them? Is there a protocol to that? I keep coming back to protocol because I think there has to be something where we advise them. Or do we just hope they'll ask the question?
4:15 p.m.
The Clerk
Usually if the committee requests the documents, then the person will say, “Okay, I'm willing to share this information, but this one I have concerns about.” There are issues with regard to, maybe, commercial security, etc. So then it's the—
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Sir, I'm not trying to prolong this at all, but all I'm saying is, do we advise the person? I'm not trying to set them up, but if they don't have either the fortitude or the comfort level to challenge what the committee asked for, so they don't know the difference, then we hurt them as a company.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
So we rely on “let the buyer beware”. I just want to be clear.
4:15 p.m.
The Clerk
Usually they will contact me and tell me about their concerns, and then I bring them here to the committee and the committee decides.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Let's move along. We actually have an issue that relates to this that we have to deal with.
Ms. Coady.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Just very quickly, I empathize with the point, but I think it's been clarified, and a businessperson would be able to make their views known. Minister Baird released information, project offerings and things of that nature, publicly last week. A lot of this information is already out there in a lot of ways.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON
Mr. Holder raises an important question. On the parliamentary practice and procedure with regard to obtaining documents or witnesses answering a question, if they can give a reasoned explanation as to why it is improper for them to do it, you won't get the documents if you accept the reason or explanation as to why they can't answer the question.
We won't know whether what we've asked for is sensitive unless they raise a concern. Our request does not mandate them to get it. If they can give an explanation to the committee that it's commercially sensitive and they would prefer not to release it, the committee can accept that. That's the practice.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
Why don't we vote on the motion?
What will happen is we'll get a response back from the ministers saying they've already provided all information. I don't think there's any concern about documents not being available. The ministers have already said that when they released these documents, they provided everything. It will be a formal response that says they've already done so. Then we've done it. There's no harm in doing it. It's repetitive. Let's deal with it.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
There are two points the clerk would like clarification on. I hope it doesn't end in a half-hour debate.
One point is that it's written that the information is requested within five days. The clerk would like to know whether that's five days or whether we should specify five working days
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
The intent was that it's working days. We'll make the friendly amendment. That was the one question.
In terms of the wording, the committee requests this documentation. Is it a request, or would you prefer it to be an order? It is different. I'm sure Mr. Szabo can explain the difference, but my understanding is that it's similar to when we request that people show up or when we subpoena them.
Is it a request for the information?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON
That is, unless they have a reason that the committee would accept as to why they can't do it.
