Government Operations Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2010

[Julia Gersovitz]

What was the question?

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

When Mr. Martin asked the question about threats and Mr. Glouberman answered, I did get the distinct impression that your answer...your body language was not quite what I had expected. Do you want to say anything about that?

[Julia Gersovitz]

No.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Not at all?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

May I express sympathy to the witnesses? We, too, have been exposed to less than memorable speeches by Conservative cabinet ministers.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Monsieur Lemay and Ms. Bourgeois.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Point of order, Mr. Chair--

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Oh gosh, here we have it.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Point of order, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

I'm sure I've stirred this one up.

Yes, Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

With all respect, Mr. Chair, I know you'd want to withdraw that, because it's beneath the greatness of the role of chair to let that comment stand.

Could I humbly ask you to withdraw that?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You can humbly ask.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Would you, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You've asked.

Monsieur Lemay or Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Of course, I'm going to share my time with my colleague.

Madam, sir, I specifically want to understand the situation. You had a specific job to do, which was to restore the government buildings. Based on your professional knowledge, your expertise, you were to find a contractor who had specific knowledge to do that job. It appears there were four, five or six bidders. If I understood correctly, only one of them could do the specific job you were requesting. Is that correct?

[Julia Gersovitz]

I think that would be incorrect, Madame Bourgeois. It is not that one contractor can do the work; it is that there is a list of qualified contractors, a list of pre-qualified contractors, of which one will do the work because his price will be the lowest conforming bid.

It's not that there is only one person who is capable. Anyone who is on the list is capable, has been judged capable by Public Works and RPCD. There is going to be only one person who will do that work, and according to the public tender process, it will be the lowest conforming bid.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

So only one qualified because you had specified the nature of the work, no? The five bidders could do the same work.

Mr. Glouberman?

[Norman Glouberman]

Exactly. There were five contractors who pre-qualified to do the work. There were a number of contractors pre-qualified to do the work and they were asked to provide prices and submit tenders.

[Julia Gersovitz]

Five firms submitted tenders. The lowest bidder was LM Sauvé and he was judged by Travaux publiques and RPCD to be conforming and to be the low bid.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

So they opted for the least costly firm.

You are professionals, and you have a very large number of years of experience in this field to your credit. I imagine you are somewhat aware of the amounts involved or of the total cost of the work to be done.

Were you surprised to see that LM Sauvé had won the contract by submitting a bid approximately $2 million less than those of the other bidders? Did that surprise you?

[Norman Glouberman]

We were asked, after the bids were analyzed by Public Works and deemed to be conforming to the legal requirements, to review the bid in terms of the cost, etc. At that point, we prepared a list of our concerns on that bid in terms of....we felt in certain cases that he was over or under our estimates. This was sent on to Public Works for their review.

Following that, there was a meeting with Paul Sauvé to go over these concerns. The reason for going over them was to make sure that he understood the extent of the work and the scope of the work. At that meeting, he said, if my memory.... I wasn't at the meeting, but I did read the minutes of the meeting. He said that the documents prepared by our firms, by our total team, were very clear, very concise, and he clearly understood the scope of the work, and he stood by his prices in each area.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

So it was then that you met Mr. Sauvé, or when you spoke with him for the first time.

[Norman Glouberman]

As I said, I was not at the meeting. Our project architect was at the meeting and some of our representatives were. I couldn't go to that meeting. I was not there.