Evidence of meeting #4 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC
I don't know for sure which departments will see an increase or reduction in staff numbers. That is not my decision to make. However, I fully trust our public servants to take into account their obligations and identify their needs.
As I said, we will see an increase in the number of public servants. We have not said that the number of positions must be reduced at all costs. That will be up to each department to decide.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
On page 162 of the English version of the budget, it is clearly stated that there may be a reduction in the size of the federal public service, so you can understand our concerns. I understand what you are saying, but the fact remains that the budget document says something different. I am not trying to set your statement against those of Mr. Flaherty, but the document is clear, and we need to understand it.
Our committee made a thorough study of the issue of demographics in the federal public service. This is not specific to Canada; the same thing applies to all other public services, whether in the Quebec nation, the Canadian provinces or even municipalities. Many people retire because they are entitled to do so, having put in their years of service, and it is difficult to recruit people to staff the resulting vacant positions. Recruitment is difficult, among other reasons, because the same phenomenon can be observed in the private sector. Given this problem, trying to reduce the size of the public service could put us in a difficult situation.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
I am referring to the reduction in the size of the public service only with regard to an ideology.
Could you please confirm to us that this is not the case?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC
Sir, I appreciate your concern.
You referred to the English version of the budget, and I believe that the key word is “may”. That shows that there is nothing sure or definite.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC
Even the word “should”...
What is clear here is that department officials will decide whether they can continue to serve Canadians as they have done for many years, or if they can deliver services differently. We don't know yet. You can read what is written in the budget. It is not definite, but we are seeking creative ideas. People may be replaced, but maybe they will not.
As I said, I have a great deal of confidence in our public service: it is capable of finding creative solutions so as to continue serving Canadians from coast to coast to coast.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you, Minister.
I know that as much as we'd like to keep you here for two hours, your time is precious. In your discourse, you indicated that there are 17 departments or agencies identified to find 5% spending cuts. Would you be able to supply those to us?
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
We haven't had the final Conservative in this round of questioning, so if you're going to ask questions, would it not be fair--
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
I'm not asking a question. I'm making a statement of what the minister stated. I'm just reminding him. So your point of order is a point of debate.
That is what the minister asked. I am just reminding him that is what he asked and that he will supply that.
Thank you.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you for being here.
The meeting is suspended for one minute while we wait for the next group.
Committee members, we now have the officials from Treasury Board Secretariat. We have Madam d'Auray, Secretary of the Treasury Board; Mr. Alister Smith; and Mr. David Bowie. When I looked at your name, I thought, okay, we're not going to have some guitar-playing person here.
Welcome.
You don't have any opening remarks, do you, Madam d'Auray?
4:35 p.m.
Michelle d'Auray Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
No.
4:35 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
I don't have a formal opening statement. I thought I would give you the overview of the supplementary estimates and the main estimates for the Treasury Board Secretariat, if that is okay with you?
4:35 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
The major changes in the Treasury Board Secretariat operating expenditures for the supplementary estimates are largely transfers from other departments to support the national employment equity councils and the national managers' community--that's $144,000--and $856,000 to support the financial interoperability and stewardship initiative for financial information systems.
There is also an increase in vote 10 of $875,000 to support the workplace development innovation fund--that's in a central vote--to support deputy ministers to develop leaders in their organizations.
In vote 15 there's a compensation adjustment of $196.4 million, which then gets redistributed to appropriations of departments and agencies. The list of the organizations to which those appropriations are distributed is included in the supplementary estimates. These appropriations are to cover compensation decisions made and agreements signed between August 1, 2009, and December 11, 2009.
There is an increase in vote 30 for pay list requirements of $100 million to supplement other appropriations of departments and agencies for requirements related to parental and maternity allowances, cessation of service, or other employment adjustments. I believe those items were referred to by Madame Bourgeois when she was talking about vote 30 and the pay list.
On the main estimates,
the major changes deal with the secretariat's operating budget further to the change in its structure with the incorporation of the former Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada. The operating budget was increased to officially account for the inclusion of this change, which was made in March 2009 and which can now be found in the main estimates for the Treasury Board Secretariat.
Therefore, there are minor adjustments that take into account the staff increases at Treasury Board concerning salary payments based on collective bargaining.
There are increases and reductions for some central votes. For most of them, you will see the same information as usual, that is, there is no change to vote 5 for government contingencies, vote 25 for operating budget carry-forward or to vote 30, which concerns funding for parental and other types of leave. All this stays the same.
The main change we have made is the elimination of vote 35, which was linked directly to the implementation of economic action plan initiatives, because it is no longer needed. This vote does not appear in the 2010-2011 budgets, because the funding expired, according to the terms and conditions that were approved in 2009-2010.
Those are the main changes that you will find in the main estimates and the supplementary estimates.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you.
We go to the first round of questions with Madam Coady for at least eight minutes.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Thank you very much.
I appreciate your coming here this afternoon as officials of the department to talk about the main estimates overall and the supplementary estimates (C).
I have some questions about the main estimates and the overall estimates. I'm having a little bit of a challenge finding some of the information I've been looking for in these main estimates, and I hope you'll be able to help me.
In the main estimates I've been looking for some information on advertising--a page and a line in the main budget that speaks to the advertising costs and spending of government. When I consider institutional oversight and to ensure that we have effective oversight, we need to be able to have clear reporting to parliamentarians on the cost of a project or a program. In fact, under the Financial Administration Act, that is the case, and as officers, I'm sure you're well aware of that. So I'm asking two major questions that I'm having some difficulty with, and I'm sure you'll be able to help me.
I'm looking for the cost of advertising--the particular page and line--that would go to this program as a whole and/or by department for both that and the items and information around management consultants.
I'm hoping that under that kind of Financial Administration Act--and of course by extension the TBS officials, looking at the expenditure management group--you have the responsibility to ensure this particular institutional oversight. Can you help me along here?
4:40 p.m.
Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
When we look at actual expenditures for either the management consulting and/or communications, if I can put it that way, we don't segment out advertising—and I'll come back to that in a minute. Those are actually published in the public accounts, in terms of the actual expenditures, and you will find the line items that are collected in the public accounts for those amounts.
In terms of the main estimates—
4:40 p.m.
Liberal