Evidence of meeting #16 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michelle d'Auray  Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Liseanne Forand  President, Shared Services Canada
Gordon O'Connor  Carleton—Mississippi Mills, CPC
Pablo Sobrino  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Thanks very much for the question.

We are very pleased with how much has been accomplished in this regard. This is part of our overall approach. Let's consolidate. Let's bring some of these systems into the 21st century so that we can provide timely services responsibly, accurately, and cost-effectively, not just to Canadian citizens but also to other government departments.

In terms of the actual operations, I'll turn to Madam d'Auray, who is overseeing Madam Jolicoeur in this process. They're the ones who really deserve the credit for it.

9:35 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Michelle d'Auray

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The pay administration initiative that you've mentioned, for example, is changing a 40-year-old and largely in-house built pay system and information management system to a commercial off-the-shelf system. It has allowed us to also consolidate the pay services from 57 organizations across the government into one location in Miramichi, which allows us to create 558 jobs in that region. It allows us to decrease the cost of the delivery, and increase the efficiency in the time to deliver the services. It will save, as you indicated, $78.1 million when it is completed. This is not a small initiative, as you can imagine, but it is also one that is on track, and it is driving a fair amount of efficiencies.

On the pension system, which we modernized, that, too, was 40 years old. I don't know, but there's something about those 40-year-old systems. Again, it was modernized and the pension services were consolidated. Those were consolidated in Shediac. That was launched in January 2013. It saves time and effort. It actually allows people to access the services online, which is quite an efficient way of accessing services. We've also been able to remove almost all of the paper from the process. We image all of the documentation. It is entered automatically and is treated, again automatically, from an information-based system.

Because of the success of the transformation, we have also been able to expand the pension platform to incorporate the RCMP system and are moving to incorporate the DND pension system, both of which needed modernization. Rather than having to expend additional funds to modernize those systems separately, we've now been able to leverage the platform we have and draw additional savings and efficiencies as a result.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you, Ms. d'Auray.

Go ahead, Mr. Côté.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Raymond Côté NDP Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. D'Auray, I would like to continue talking about linguistic and translation services. Ms. Forand said that the department is increasingly turning to external contracts. Despite the short-term savings that we can expect, those contracts might end up costing more in the long term.

By turning to outside players, are you not worried that you will lose the inside expertise? Are you not worried that the level of services will suffer in the long term?

9:40 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Michelle d'Auray

The services of the Translation Bureau are provided through a healthy mix of internal resources and external resources. As a result, we are close to achieving this balance. We are using internal and external resources.

As the minister said, we have achieved unprecedented levels of efficiency. We have invested in computer systems to process orders electronically. Going from paper to computers has enabled us to save $4 million. As a result, when you see a drop, you are also seeing a drop as a result of efficiency. We have managed to reduce our operating costs.

We have also just completed a rather innovating project, a language portal, for which we have received funding as votes. The language portal allows people across Canada and around the world to access our terminology and our documentation, which was not possible before.

This new electronic access supports the development of the private sector. We are always mindful of how our activities affect the private sector with which we work closely. We must also follow up on the requests of various government departments.

Finally, as you know, the Translation Bureau works on a cost recovery basis. It is an optional, not a mandatory, service. As the minister said, departments can also directly use the services of the private sector. They are not required to exclusively use the services of the Translation Bureau.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Raymond Côté NDP Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you very much.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

9:40 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

You have only two minutes.

9:40 a.m.

NDP

Raymond Côté NDP Beauport—Limoilou, QC

We are now going to look at defence procurement.

On the Public Works Canada site, we can see that the new Defence Acquisitions Guide will be published in June 2014. I hope this deadline can be met.

To follow up on my colleague Mr. Martin's remarks, when we talk about defence procurement, we are referring to the big picture, to Canada's preferred role and place in the world. That has to do with our policies, both in terms of foreign affairs and the operational requirements established by National Defence. After that, Public Works takes the baton.

The example of the acquisition of a new fighter jet speaks volumes about this issue. It seems that the project gets delayed and we will not see the end of it or, actually, that we will be dealing with never-ending processes to guarantee the response capacity of our Canadian Forces.

How can you reassure us that we are not going to end up in a materiel procurement system that takes longer and longer?

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

One of the reasons for launching the defence procurement strategy is that we wanted to reduce the time required for making major acquisitions such as ships and fighter jets. As you said, it is very important that Canada acquire that equipment.

However, we are not the ones determining what National Defence will need. In June, the Department of National Defence will publish its first version of its acquisitions guide. I look forward to seeing this guide that should give the industry an idea of the needs of our armed forces for the next five to 20 years.

The industry will then be able to determine which products require research and development. That will be very important for the industry and the armed forces.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you. Could I ask you to please wrap up?

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

That is why a guide will be provided to help in the decision-making.

9:45 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Minister, thank you for being here and for your time this morning.

I am going to suspend the meeting for a few minutes to give you time to leave.

Other officials from the department will join us to answer more questions. I will therefore suspend the meeting for a few minutes, thanking you once again for being here today.

9:50 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

We'll reconvene the meeting.

We have new witnesses here with us: Mr. Long, Ms. Saurette and Mr. Sobrino. We will continue with our questions.

Ms. Ablonczy, go ahead for five minutes.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

I'm interested in the IT system that is being transformed—that's a nice word. Every department, I understand, used to have their own e-mail IT system, and now you're consolidating them, which must be a massive undertaking. I'm just interested in your vision, in your process for that and how that's coming along.

9:50 a.m.

President, Shared Services Canada

Liseanne Forand

Mr. Chair, thank you for the question.

Yes, indeed, Shared Services Canada was created in August 2011 to fundamentally change the way IT infrastructure is managed and delivered in the Government of Canada. I'll specify IT infrastructure because it's not everything IT in government. It really is those parts of IT that can be delivered in a common way as a common platform to all departments, so exactly things like e-mail systems.

When departments created their own e-mail systems in the mid-1990s, the technology wasn't robust enough to deliver an e-mail system for 377,000 people, so each department built their own e-mail systems. With that, they used different technologies. They used different platforms. They created firewalls, of course, around their e-mail systems. Over time that created a complexity and a lack of efficiency that technology, in fact, gave us the ability to overcome. One key part of this was to give all departments the same e-mail system and bring them all within the same network that way.

Similarly, the networking—wide area networks that link up whole organizations, local area networks that link up a single workplace, all of those things—was also built individually by departments. Each department would have its wide area network and its own local area networks in all of its locations. For example, you would have something like an office building at 4900 Yonge Street in Toronto where you might have five or six departments. You would have five or six wide area networks entering the building from each of the departments, and each of them inside would have created their own local area networks. Over time all of this became what looked to me like spaghetti, a real mix of wiring, which is expensive. It's inefficient. It slows down the performance. It's bad for service. What we are doing is looking at all of that networking. We're going to create a single integrated voice data and video network for the Government of Canada on a much more rational basis.

The third component of IT infrastructure transformation is data centres. When you work on an application of any kind, that application relies on data that has to be stored somewhere. Departments have set up their own data centres. Some of them are quite large; some of them are just sort of a room in an office building where they've created a raised floor and put in servers. All of this had become very diverse with different kinds of technology being used, different kinds of products. There were 485 different places across the country where departments were storing data. We are going to reduce that to a consolidated footprint of seven purpose-built data centres, some of which are already built, others of which will be secured from the private sector. You can imagine how that is going to cut down on costs, not only because we're going from 600,000 square feet to about 235,000 square feet. For this, again, technology has increased the capacity to have highly dense data centres. Also, if you go back to the question of networking and data transmission costs, when you have data located in 485 places, just moving it around is going to cost money as opposed to having it located in highly consolidated places.

That's the overall vision. That's the plan at the end of the day. We will have a single, secure, integrated network linking up seven highly dense, modern, reliable, and secure data centres across the Government of Canada.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Ablonczy Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

What's the ETA for that?

9:55 a.m.

President, Shared Services Canada

Liseanne Forand

The entire transformation is aiming to be completed by 2019-20, but we will be making incremental progress as we go. The e-mail system, for example, will be fully implemented by the end of March 2015. We have opened a first enterprise data centre here in the Gatineau region, which is a development and test data centre. We will be opening two other enterprise data centres later this year in southwestern Ontario. That will enable us to start moving workloads, as we call them, from the old data centres into the new data centres. For example, we closed 10 of the 485 data centres this year, and we anticipate closing another 40 or 50 in 2014-15. It's incremental. It's not a big bang thing.

As you probably know, Mr. Chair, IT projects are considered to be risky from a management point of view. One of the ways of addressing that risk is to reduce it to sizable, smaller, chunky projects. That's how we're going forward with this. We're doing it in small, bite-sized pieces as we go, with a view to completing the whole transformation by 2020.

9:55 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you for your answers.

Mr. Byrne now has the floor for five minutes.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Madam d'Auray, I want to follow up on some of the minister's comments on the integrity provisions of procurement and government activity in procurement.

Foreign military sales are specifically exempt from the integrity provisions, as is the Koblenz office of Public Works and Government Services Canada.

That's a pretty glaring omission. Is there a reason for that?

9:55 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Michelle d'Auray

Mr. Chair, with regard to foreign military sales, because it is a direct government-to-government procurement, in fact we rely on the selling government for the purchase...and their review of their materiel.

With regard to the Koblenz office, that was an oversight on our part. In fact it has now been covered by the integrity framework.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

When you say it was an oversight, the omission of the Koblenz office, it was really blatantly spelled out in the new document that was tabled on February 1, 2014. How do you say it was an oversight?

9:55 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Michelle d'Auray

The new integrity provisions were actually implemented on March 1.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Sorry, yes, it was March 1, not February 1.

9:55 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Deputy Receiver General for Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Michelle d'Auray

It was included in that. Prior to that, it had not been. When we were looking at the acquisition and the processes that were supported through the Koblenz office, most of them were in fact through direct government acquisitions. We have now extended the coverage to include the Koblenz office.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

There are exemptions that are available under the policy, which quite frankly creates some pretty significant loopholes. Those authorized opt-outs can be signed off at, I think, the assistant deputy minister level. Is my interpretation correct?