Government Operations Committee on Dec. 10th, 2013

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

In order to meet our obligations under the Employment Equity Act and the Public Service Employment Act, we can apply certain measures to fill positions when there is a discrepancy in a specific category in terms of employment equity. In the case of women, for instance, if we note a discrepancy in a group, we can use the legislation's flexibility to correct the situation.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Are there any programs in terms of access, in terms of positive discrimination?

[Hélène Laurendeau]

For women?

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

For women and for aboriginals.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

We don't have any positive discrimination programs. As Ms. Robinson explained, for all employment equity groups, there are mechanisms aimed at increasing representation in areas of deficiency.

As for women, there are still discrepancies in certain occupational groups—such as engineers—and mechanisms are in place to increase the representation.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

So we are talking about sectors with non-traditional jobs.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

Exactly.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do you have any objectives to meet when it comes to aboriginals?

[Hélène Laurendeau]

We have no specific target, but generally speaking, the policy dictates that representation within departments should reflect the workforce availability. When it comes to aboriginal groups, the representation is where it should be.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

Mr. Cannan, you have five minutes.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for appearing here again.

I'm starting off on chapter 4, page 79, table 21 of the report, and it's “Public Service Commission investigations into appointment processes”.

It talks about 228 cases completed in 2012-13, and then you have a breakdown accordingly. There were 126 cases closed at intake. I'm trying to clarify the difference between those at intake and those that are unfounded.

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

Thank you for the question.

The ones that would be closed at intake would be cases that our jurisdictions directorate in our investigations function would examine. We would have determined that we either don't have the jurisdictions or we don't have grounds to launch an investigation. Under the law, of course, we must respect those two principles.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

With regard to the 44 investigations founded—I'm just trying to clarify—it says it could be somebody who used false educational and professional credentials.

Are they dismissed then, or not hired? What's the consequence?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

It would depend on the circumstances. Of the 44 cases in fraud, I don't know exactly the number, but as I mentioned earlier that resulted in nine revocations. I'm not sure if those were all related to fraud, but there were nine appointments that were revoked in 2012-13.

The other cases of fraud would include cheating, for example, which constitutes fraud under the Public Service Employment Act, or we've seen cases where people may falsify test results. In those cases, depending on the nature of the problem that was identified, the corrective measure could include revocation.

Sometimes these are people who have not been appointed to the public service, as we might find fraud before an appointment is made. In some of those cases, you'll see a corrective measure for those individuals, which is like having a note on your file for a certain period of time. If you want to apply for a job in the public service, it would be disclosed to anyone looking to hire you that this fraud had been committed.

There are different measures, depending on the case.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

So there were just 238 files that were reviewed under your portfolio in this past year.

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

Our investigation mandate is limited to transactions related to appointments in the public service.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Approximately how many—

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

There were 228 cases completed in 2012-13.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Who's responsible for the other ones? You said there were 200,000.

Does that fall within each department and each manager, then?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

There are 200,000 public servants who are employed under the act. There is in the range of 100,000 staffing transactions each year. That number was included to give you a sense of the scope of the number of transactions, to put the 44 fraud cases in context. It is problematic that we've had 44 cases, but in the context of 100,000 staffing transactions, most of the transactions are not problematic in our view, and things are generally sound in the staffing system.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you.

What is the definition of “indeterminate”. Where did that come from?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

I'm not sure of the origins of that phrase, and I agree that it's sometimes difficult to understand. I think it's in the act, but I couldn't say for sure. It means a permanent hire.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

That would be more common sense, to say “a permanent hire”.

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

Yes, I would agree with that comment.

I believe my colleague is telling me that it is in the act, but it does refer to permanent hires.

[Ron Cannan, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thanks.

With regard to employment equity groups, how many are there how has that changed over the years?