Government Operations Committee on Dec. 10th, 2013

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Thank you very much.

Would you be able to describe to the committee any elements of the act or the procedures available to you through legislation or otherwise that may be frustrating your attempts or are of concern to you to be able to do a complete and full job? Are there any elements of the act that you would like to advise the committee should be reviewed, or any amendments that you would like to have considered?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the question.

That's certainly a question I would want to give thought to, but I could say at this moment nothing has come to light vis-à-vis our investigative powers.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

I now yield the floor to Mr. Trottier.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming in today to speak about this important issue. I think the last time you spoke in front of this committee was a couple of years ago, when you were newly appointed. It's good to see you back.

It's also good to see I think some positive trends. I always appreciate looking at what's happening year over year, but I also appreciate the fact that in your report you have some longer-term trends.

One figure that intrigues me in particular is figure 6 in your report, where you talk about “Appointments under the Public Service Employment Act of new indeterminate employees, by fiscal year”. This goes all the way back to 1993.

There's an interesting trend. There was a very similar level of appointments in 1996-97, with 2,966 appointments. It compares almost exactly to 2012-13, with 2,949. But there was a crest of 20,087 in 2008-09.

Can you describe some of the factors that are causing those trends? Is 2012-13, obviously there are some things related to the deficit reduction action plan that are going on. Is the set of circumstances very similar to what was taking place in 1996-97 under program review then?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

Thank you for that.

I'm not sure I could give you a full account of all of the reasons. As well as the things that you have mentioned, there were different areas of growth and downsizing within the federal public service. That chart covers a very long period of time. There also were some reorganizations of government departments that affected this, where some departments were put in and outside of the Public Service Employment Act.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

With respect to the crescendo, that peak in 2008-09 of 20,087, was some of that related to things like the stimulus program? What was going on then, given the fairly dramatic increase in new appointments that year.

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

I'll ask my colleague, Madam Laurendeau, to comment on that.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Yes, please.

[Hélène Laurendeau, Senior Vice-President, Policy Branch, Public Service Commission of Canada]

We can't say for sure that it would be strictly associated with the economic action plan, but there was more staffing activity at the time, and the figures don't necessarily adequately.... We can't disaggregate what is strictly from the economic action plan, but we certainly have seen an increase in the staffing actions associated with that period.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay.

One of the positive trends you mentioned in your presentation was how in the public service opportunities are opened up to Canadians from farther afield. I think it's really important that all Canadians, from coast to coast to coast, feel that this is their government and that they're not excluded from some of the opportunities that exist in the public sector.

Beyond technology and the ability to communicate with people about opportunities, what kinds of measures are being taken by the public sector to ensure that people from all regions of the country have access to those opportunities to work in the public sector?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

Thank you for that question.

I would say that one of the most important policies is the national area of selection policy, which has been in place for a number of years. That policy does provide that for external appointments, people from all across the country have a chance to compete for those appointments.

Then, thanks to the efforts of my predecessor and of my colleague Mr. Thom, who manages this area, we have really made advances in using Internet-based testing and other technologies to allow more Canadians to easily access jobs. In some cases, they can take tests from their home. That provides in general much greater access.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

You also mentioned in your presentation that student hiring was down; but still, 9,500 students were hired for part-time and summer employment. Is most of that in Parks Canada? What are the departments where those students might have the opportunity to work for the public sector?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman.

I could send a list to the committee. I'm sure we have a detailed list, which I don't have with me today.

But that hiring takes place all across the public service. I can't say off the top of my head in which departments. It's probably in proportion somewhat to the size of the department, but even in our own department, we do hire summer students as well.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Okay. I just wanted to get a general sense of it.

Were some of these cases summer hires looking to fill in for people who are on vacation? Does this represent a good summer experience for them, whereby they can subsequently get a full-time position with the public sector?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

It does represent a lot of summer employment and part-time employment throughout the year. Under the Public Service Employment Act there is a policy in place, and it's part of Treasury Board policy as well, that allows students under certain circumstances, providing they meet the merit criteria, to be bridged into the public service. So this is a really important source of renewal for the public service.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Trottier. Your time is up.

I now yield the floor to Mrs. Day for five minutes.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A member opposite asked earlier what the percentages of francophones and anglophones were, and he was told that the proportion of francophones was 21% and that of anglophones was 68%. You were then asked what the proportions were in Ottawa, but you did not have the answer.

There are 700,000 francophones in Ontario. Can you assure us that Franco-Ontarians are well represented? Although obtaining a job depends on the productivity and not the language, is there at least an obligation to respond in French to francophones outside Quebec?

[Anne-Marie Robinson]

Thank you. I will ask my colleague Ms. Laurendeau to answer your question.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

I would first like to clarify something. You said that the proportion of francophones in the public service was 21%, but it is actually 31.8%. The proportion of anglophones is 68.2%. When it comes to the representation of anglophones and francophones, these are the figures we have, but they belong to the Treasury Board. The figures actually come from the Treasury Board's annual report on official languages from last year.

The determination of a position's linguistic capacity is based on the Treasury Board's definition with regard to the necessity to have bilingual positions in certain locations—be it for services to the public or for internal services that are to be provided to employees in both languages.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

You told us that earlier. I would like to know whether Franco-Ontarians, Franco-Manitobans and francophones outside Quebec can obtain a response in French, based on the position and its obligations, and if that is the case across the country.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

I don't want to go too far in answering this question, but according to the Treasury Board's policy, in areas where services to the public are to be provided in both languages, francophones can obtain a response in French. For that to be the case, the area must be designated as bilingual. However, internally, employees have the right to be served in the language of their choice when it comes to payroll services and other similar services.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

As for employment equity, some percentages are provided in table 6, on page 29 of the English version. As we know, aboriginals, persons with disabilities, members of visible minorities and women account for a certain number of applicants. Relevant figures are provided for the period between 2010-2011 and 2012-2013, but when we look at the percentage of women, N/A is marked for each of the three years. So the data is not available. A woman is a woman, and a man is a man. It seems to me that this can be calculated.

Are there still any programs for equality of access to the public service for men and women? Could you shed some light on this table for us? It seems to me that this is not normal.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

Can you please repeat what page number you're talking about?

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

It's on page 29 of the English version, in table 6, which is titled “Percentage of applicants to advertised processes, by employment equity designated group and fiscal year, compared to the 2006 workforce availability”.