Evidence of meeting #112 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cbsa.
A video is available from Parliament.
1:30 p.m.
Liberal
Jenica Atwin Liberal Fredericton, NB
I was just wondering if there were discussions or dialogue happening about shared practices or best practices within those government entities that were facing the same thing, or were we flying on our own on this one?
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
We did have many conversations with our colleagues around the world, but I think we were slightly flying blind, because every requirement was different.
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Conservative
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
When he was at the CBSA, who did Minh Doan directly report to?
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
He reported to the president, John Ossowski, and it was the same for me.
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Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Okay.
I'm sure you're familiar with the allegations that Minh Doan deleted tens of thousands of emails over four years.
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm aware of the allegations.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
It was when the matter was raised in committee. I was not aware before then.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
It was when it was raised here in the committee. I wasn't aware of it before then.
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Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Okay.
Would you agree with me, sir, that deleting four years' worth of relevant emails—not because they were corrupted, but deliberately deleting them—during the ArriveCAN development and outlay would potentially constitute not only a highly suspicious action on the part of Minh Doan but also potentially an illegal one under the Criminal Code? Obstruction of justice comes to mind.
Do you believe that's worthy of an internal investigation?
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
The CBSA does take allegations of wrongdoing very seriously, and it is my understanding that the matter is being looked at.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I do not know if they're investigating that specifically, but—
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Will you look into that and will you provide us with a response?
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I'd be happy for the agency to provide a response.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
Are you aware of whether or not that allegation of deleting tens of thousands of emails over four years has been reported to the RCMP?
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm not aware of whether it's been reported to the RCMP.
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Okay.
I want to circle back to GC Strategies. There are a couple of issues that were raised in the Auditor General's report.
First of all, the CBSA informed the Auditor General during the report stage that GC Strategies was awarded their initial contract on the basis of a proposal that was submitted.
The CBSA indicated that it had discussions at the time with three potential contractors about submitting a proposal to develop the ArriveCAN app, yet through investigation, the Auditor General found that only one proposal was received by the CBSA, but not for GC Strategies.
Why would the agency deliberately mislead the Auditor General?
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
My understanding is that at the start of the pandemic—and again, I was not directly involved in these discussions—they mocked up what the first version of ArriveCAN would look like and asked three organizations—Deloitte, Apple and GC Strategies—
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I'm aware of that.
Why would the CBSA deliberately mislead the Auditor General by saying that it had received a proposal from GC Strategies when in fact it had not? Why would they deliberately mislead?
1:30 p.m.
Vice-President, Comptrollership Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm not aware of that and I'm sure—
1:30 p.m.
Conservative
