I can tell you that we're definitely not talking with our American, Australian and British allies as they move forward with the consideration of Australia's next submarines. When we didn't have submarines, as in the period between the O class and the Upholders, we lost control of Canadian maritime sovereignty because we didn't know whose submarines were coming into our waters and near our waters. That information, even from our friends, is not shared, and we absolutely need it.
Because submarines are expensive, because they are complex.... When they succeed, they are out of the political discourse, and if you're not hearing about them, if they're not grounding and if they're not running into issues, everybody thinks they're not important. I can assure you that they are completely essential to Canadian maritime security, particularly on the west coast coming into the future.
It astounds me that at this point in time we seem to be having some discussions, with the navy at least trying to drive the agenda, but from the political side—and we keep bringing up this issue in terms of the political interest—we don't seem to see any mobilization of the recognition that we shouldn't just be talking about subs today. We should have a plan to have the next generation, just as the Australians are doing or as the Japanese are doing, or any of the other countries that know you need them for security against the Chinese threat.