Government Operations Committee on March 6th, 2023

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

This next question probably stays with Ms. O'Gorman, but if not, it's certainly open to whoever would like to answer. CBSA told the committee in response to its motion that a fourth contract was ended before the work began because it was determined that the work could be performed in-house. Could you speak to what work was to be performed under this contract?

[Ted Gallivan]

I would be happy to take that.

There are two elements. The first was kind of re-documenting the expectation from our commercial system in terms of revenue increase, in terms of facilitating the passage of compliant goods, in terms of the acceptance of trade chain partners. It was to kind of reconfirm that we were looking at the right things to judge the success of this, and then to ensure that we were set up to monitor it on an ongoing basis.

There were a series of conversations in which we said, “Well, that's not something we just need one time. That's something that we should be looking at day in and day out after the next decade.” We decided to build that model ourselves. For validation of that model, our independent internal audit unit stepped up. They had some capacity and offered to lend the element of independence. I think we forwent the expertise of an outside vendor to build the in-house capacity so that we could stay focused on it on a more ongoing basis.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

Was there a cost involved in ending the contract the way that you did?

[Ted Gallivan]

There was not.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

Again, I open this to whoever is able and wants to answer the question.

When did McKinsey first bid on tenders for which the CBSA was the end user, and what was the result?

[Erin O'Gorman]

The first contract that they bid on was in 2016, and that was a contract of about five months. The CBSA was the end user of that contract, and it was the business case for the digitization of the revenue collection function.

[Joanne Thompson, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I think I have time for one more quick question.

When pursuing contracts, who has the final authority?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give a very brief answer, please.

[Erin O'Gorman]

It depends on the level.

When we do it with PSPC, the contracting authority resides there. When it's within the CBSA, it depends on the level and on the value of the contract.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you, Ms. Thompson.

Ms. Vignola, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, if I understood correctly what you were telling us earlier, the decision to grant permanent resident status to 500,000 people rests entirely with the government.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes, that's correct.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

This decision follows through on the proposal of the Century Initiative, tabled in 2016. You thought it was a good idea.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes, but as a result of consultations and work with our provincial and territorial government partners, we have had discussions with other stakeholders who work in the communities and provide services with regard to the newcomer settlement process.

The consultation process is very good, and it takes place before the federal government makes a decision on the immigration target.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Despite these consultations, the basic reason for the decision to take in 500,000 permanent residents was to support the economy.

Now, as I explained earlier, their primary needs, those of Maslow's pyramid, must be met. Among these needs is hospital care. At present, the health needs are $6 billion for Quebec and $26 billion for Canada; one-seventh of this amount has been distributed. I don't even want to talk about future needs: the population is going to grow and it's going to get older.

Are there any plans for health transfers commensurate with the requests from Quebec and the Canadian provinces?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you for your question.

In terms of immigration, we have an agreement with the Province of Quebec. According to this agreement, hundreds of millions of dollars more will be paid to Quebec each year, for the benefit of the Quebec population. In addition, other types of support and assistance are available to newcomers.

You mentioned infrastructure needs. Newcomers and immigrants who have the skills could help in the health sector, for instance.

This is one of the reasons why we need to continue the consultation work. We also need to continue to provide support on the ground, to support the economy and build communities where there is essential infrastructure.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's true, but you also have to be able to welcome newcomers well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Thank you. That is our time. I'm sorry, Ms. Vignola.

Mr. Johns, you have two and a half minutes, please.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

The Customs and Immigration Union estimates that there's a lack of about 3,000 border officers at the CBSA. Currently the agency only has the one college, with a maximum that I'll put at 500 recruits a year.

What's the agency's plan to fill this gap? Have you considered opening another college or other fully equipped training facilities?

The other thing is that I know you're offering to hire retired officers or student workers on a contract basis to perform these duties that are done by trained officers. It's not sustainable in the long term. What's your plan for this?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I'll start and then pass it over to Ms. O'Gorman, given that it is operational in nature.

I want to highlight that in the last two years alone, we've allocated approximately $450 million to assist with additional resources. As to the rolling out of those funds with regard to staffing, recruitment and retention, I'll pass it to Ms. O'Gorman.

[Erin O'Gorman]

There are a couple of things. I think we would respectfully disagree with the number, but we share with our union colleagues and partners a desire to make sure that we are sufficiently staffed across the country. We are currently doing so with a view to the busy summer season.

I would also say that our student BSOs become, to a large extent, our permanent workforce. They are absolutely critical to CBSA.

We're always looking at opportunities for where and how to train our officers and what can be done in the regions on an ongoing basis, and making sure that the training at the college is always as efficient as it possibly can be.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Have you received any advice, whether from the immigration union or CBSA employees from McKinsey, in terms of managing staff levels at the border or within the structure of the CBSA?

[Erin O'Gorman]

I believe that some of these contracts looked at how resources would be allocated with a view to a digital future. There is not ongoing advice from any consultants with regard to staffing levels at the front line of CBSA.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Did you use McKinsey in your response to the toxic drug crisis, including the pilot project in British Columbia?

[The Chair, Conservative, Kelly McCauley]

Give a brief answer, please.