Health Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2007

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

No, he's trying to fill the time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

No, he's trying to answer the questions, but if you'd like to talk it out, that's fine. I would like to give the minister and Mr. Rosenberg now a chance to try to answer Madam Bennett's question.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm deferring to my deputy, please.

[Morris Rosenberg, Deputy Minister, Department of Health]

Thank you, Madam Chair. On the question of backlogs in natural health products, we acknowledge that there have been some challenges with the timely issuance of licences for natural health products. Over the past couple of years, we've been implementing process improvements that have resulted in a threefold increase in productivity.

To list some of the things we've done, we've increased the number of monographs; we've redefined and revised our standard operating procedures; we've increased assessment resources; and we're revising and clarifying the information and evidence that companies have to submit with their applications. We acknowledge that we need to do better, and we're continuing to explore other ways to strengthen the timeliness and efficiency of the review process.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

This committee was very interested in assisted human reproduction, and I would like to know what has taken so long in terms of the planned 44 people whom you were to have employed. There is actually one employed at this time, which is a discrepancy of 43 people. You have to wonder what on earth we need this for if we've have been able to...you know, you are 43 people short from the projection.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Go ahead, Mr. Minister.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I can get some more detail from my deputy, but I can certainly assure you that within the past year...the board is now up and running, which was the first stage of making sure this agency was available to the people of Canada. That has occurred. They are moving forward with their responsibilities, which include staffing up.

Deputy, would you like to add anything to that?

[Morris Rosenberg]

In terms of the agency, which started about eight or nine months ago, it's staffing up. It has 18 people on staff between the office in Vancouver and the office in Ottawa. There are some people on contract, and they're continuing to build the team, which takes some time.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thank you. I would like to explain to the minister that I think as a committee, in terms of doing our job, receiving the regulations one at a time is extraordinarily difficult for us—to be able to then understand the comprehensive nature of the file—and whatever you could do to get us the regulations in a package, as opposed to regulation by regulation, so we can see how confidentiality and some of these things are being dealt with, I think the committee would appreciate it.

Minister, on the HPV vaccine—that was $300 million in the budget and it is now in a third-party trust—my concern, as you know, has been that the young women on reserve in aboriginal schools are not necessarily going to receive it in the provinces that haven't signed on yet to give HPV, so it actually creates a complete unevenness for aboriginal young women across this country if you as the minister can't guarantee that all young aboriginal women will get the vaccine regardless of what province they live in.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Sure. Can I respond to that?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Yes.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

First of all, the funding for each province was per capita, so there is in fact funding for every single individual, including first nations and Inuit communities on reserves or elsewhere. That's the first thing.

I know we're rolling it out based on an immunization schedule.

I don't know, Dr. Clarke, if you wanted to add anything to that?

[Dr. Robert Clarke, Assistant Deputy Minister, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness Branch, Office of the Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada]

Four provinces have already started programs, and the rest are in discussions with their respective communities to develop their programs, so it is proceeding at that level.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

I'd just like to go back to the HIV funding. I want to know if those funds you are giving to the vaccine initiative are in addition to the $84.4 million promised in the federal initiative to address AIDS.

[Jane Billings, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Communications and Corporate Services Branch, Assistant Deputy Minister's Office, Public Health Agency of Canada]

In terms of the funding for the HIV vaccine, the federal government is providing $111 million, of which $26 million came from existing sources, including about $15 million from the federal initiative. But that total of $111 million, including the $26 million of redirected money, has levered another $28 million from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. So in total, we have almost $130 million going into the HIV vaccine initiative, of which only $26 million came from existing federal sources, the rest being new.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Ms. Billings.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

So the $26 million is down from the $84 million?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Now we'll go on to Madame Gagnon.

Thank you.

[Jane Billings]

No, not all of the $26 million is drawn from the $84 million.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It is difficult to be as energetic as Ms. Bennett is today, but I will try to be up to par.

I would like to go back to the federal initiative to fight HIV/AIDS in Canada. You will remember that this was an initiative undertaken by the Liberal government in 2003. Yesterday I listened to a presentation made by the Public Health Agency of Canada during which some explanations were given about how the money had been distributed. We were told that there had been an increase, but that this increase had already been announced five years ago. This is a continuation of the agreement made by former Minister Rock under the Liberal government. This was a five-year agreement; you are simply renewing it. If I have a proper understanding of the way these increases have been distributed, the Conservative Party has not announced any new money.

I am worried by the spillover effect that this increase has had on AIDS support organizations. Yesterday, I was making a presentation on COCQ-Sida, an organization that oversees 23 organizations in Quebec. No tangible money has been given to this organization as part of this increase from $42.2 million to $84.4 million from 2003 to 2009. As we speak, this organization allegedly received an initial amount of $100,000 in 2005 and a further $23,000 in 2006.

In 2007, niet the organization received no additional monies. About $9 million was allocated over the past five years, but in actual fact, the support organizations did not receive what they could have expected given the increases that were to be made over the years. In 2007, the renewal did not include an increase. You talk about increases, but at the same time, you talk about additional funding. However, that doesn't make sense when you look into the accounts of the support organizations.

I would like you to explain why the government is unable to provide any additional support to organizations over the years?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you for your question.

I would simply like to tell you that there is more money for this initiative. The Conservative government has a new initiative for the vaccine, which is also tied to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. But there are also community programs for treatment and other services.

Perhaps Ms. Billings would like to add something to this.

[Jane Billings]

The money for community programs can be divided between continuity and programming. There are also funds that are given on a one-time basis. The funds were reduced because of the reductions the minister referred to a few minutes ago.

We've had to allocate these funds among a number of different one-time programs. There are still funds flowing in Quebec. For a number of the community groups, there are some reductions from last year, but these reductions are relatively modest, and there are funds still flowing into those groups, with payments due to go on for the rest of the year, on a schedule that's been shared with—

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

The year 2007 is drawing to a close, and no new money has been forthcoming. You said that there has been an increase, but in the same breath you talk about reductions. You talked about the vaccine strategy. The funds allocated to this initiative are not supposed to come from the budget. This is a strategy to respond to the immediate needs of people living with HIV-AIDS. The research on the vaccine is for the future. You are aware of a failure regarding Merck Frosst. You will be taking this $23 million from this budget. Accordingly, we cannot really talk about an immediate increase for the people afflicted with the disease.

Earlier it was said that there were 85,000 cases of HIV-AIDS. So we have to take action for the here and now, while at the same time thinking of the future. You announced new funding. You are bragging about this, but there really is no new funding. This funding had been allocated. With respect to the HIV-AIDS strategy, we can see that there has been an increase in cases. You are unable to meet the expectations in the field. Organizations are overworked. Some are even thinking about shutting down because they did not receive the required money. The need is there, the demand is there, but the money is not forthcoming with respect to what was announced in this strategy. There may be an additional $40 million, but what about the support program? You said that the money had been allocated to Quebec. The money was allocated, but in two phases. There was $100,000 for 23 organizations. In 2007, this was refused. I know how you are going to answer me.

Over the years, there has been an increase from $9 million to $10 million, if I understand correctly, for the 40 million additional dollars. This money never reached the organizations that look after people living with HIV-AIDS. And this is not the case just in Quebec. I have been told that there are some provinces, in the rest of Canada, that feel abandoned because of inadequate support.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I would like to add a few words. There of course has to be a balance between treatment and support initiatives for community programs and a new vaccine program which is the hope for the future. Canada could be a world leader in producing the vaccine. I am very pleased with our partnership with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, the first partnership in the world to take on this challenge.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Minister, the $23 million that have been announced are coming from the increased budget that was already put in place under the Liberal government. So this is not additional funding. You are taking this money from a strategy that deals with the immediate and urgent needs of people in order to invest in the future. I can understand, however...