Health Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2007

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

This is a new strategy, Ms. Gagnon.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

It is a new strategy, but do not tell me that support for these organizations has increased because there is new funding. There is still $20 million of the $40 million left. That money is not getting to where it is needed.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I would like to assure—

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

That is what I want to tell you, Minister. People are very concerned. There was the HIV-AIDS conference in Toronto, where commitments were made by the international community.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I want to tell Quebeckers and Canadians that our government is contributing to all the programs to combat AIDS, particularly through the best funding offered by any Canadian government in history.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

This is the same budget that was announced by the Liberals, Minister.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Under the new strategy, Canada is working with other leaders around the world to find a real solution to the vaccine challenge.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Minister, I would have liked to talk about natural health products, but since that issue has already been raised, we will come back to it on the second round.

The new Canadian Food Inspection Agency directive on the labelling of home-made products by small local producers will come into effect in 2008.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Madame Gagnon, there's less than a minute left. I just want to tell you that you're going to run out of time.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Would you be prepared to impose a moratorium on the implementation of those regulations?

I have been hearing from people that it has been very difficult to get in touch with small traditional producers in the regions. I personally tried to find out what the impact of those regulations would be in our area—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Madame Gagnon, we've run out of time.

Mr. Minister, would you answer? I'll give you a couple of minutes to answer, if you could.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

That question might be for the Department of Agriculture, but I will try to find the answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Madame Wasylycia-Leis.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, and all your staff for being here today.

I would also like to acknowledge the presence in this room of Dr. Frank Plummer, who I think all of our committee would like to congratulate in terms of his Order of Canada award in recognition of his great contribution here in Canada and internationally. I just want to put on the record our thanks and appreciation.

I would like to pick up on the AIDS funding issue for just a moment. I know you've mentioned in your speech some increase, and some would argue—rightfully so, I think—this is really just a rollover of previous money committed under the former government. The biggest concern we have is that it would appear that in fact you are reducing moneys to the AIDS community action program. There has already been confirmation that Ontario is being cut back some $26 million over the next five years, and that money—I don't know where it's going—is being cut back out of ACAP. Lots of groups, as you know, are writing us. They're concerned. The Public Health Agency is reviewing this whole area. There's a real belief that this money plays an important role. The AIDS community action program is important in terms of education and prevention.

Can you confirm that this is happening and that there are reductions to ACAP being planned over a period of time?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Here's my dilemma. First of all, I don't think any definitive decisions have been made. But the box in which I find myself is that there is an act of Parliament; the previous two Liberal budgets, prior to their demise, mandate certain cuts to programs in the Public Health Agency. That's what I'm left with.

Despite that, we are increasing funding within our discretion for programs generally within the envelope of HIV and AIDS. Yes, some of it is going to vaccine. I think that's a worthwhile initiative. Canada is number one in the world on working for vaccine.

So that's the dilemma in which I find myself. We have reductions that were mandated by an act of Parliament during the Liberal government. I feel obliged to meet Parliament's wishes, but at the same time, I think it is important to recognize to the communities you are concerned about that our total funding will be $84.4 million next year, which is significant and certainly the highest it's ever been.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

That appears to be simply the rollout of the previous government's funding for AIDS.

Let me ask then--

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Not completely, no.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

I think all departments were given directives around looking for programs to cut. I think most Canadians would find it passing strange that we would cut community funding in an area pertaining to HIV and AIDS when the problems are serious and of deep concern to Canadians, and at the same time you're able to find money for an ad campaign for a war on drugs, which has dubious results according to all who are experienced in this field.

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Can I assure viewers, through you, in the HIV/AIDS community and all Canadians who are concerned about this disease that we recognize this as an international epidemic. We recognize it as a challenge we face here. We are putting more money into the programs that we think will make a difference.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Could you assure us that there will be no cutbacks to the ACAP program, the AIDS community action program?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I cannot assure you that, no, because I feel I have a mandate that has been bestowed upon me by previous Liberal budgets.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

Let me just switch gears a bit. I think that's disappointing to the community, and obviously—

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

I'm disappointed too.

[Judy Wasylycia-Leis, NDP, Winnipeg North, MB]

—it will have an impact in terms of our country's ability to actually educate people in ways that will prevent the spread of HIV and AIDS.

I think it might be useful to move some of your money from your war on drugs to a war on drug safety and drug prices, and I mean legal drugs. This is one of the biggest concerns facing Canadians right now—the price of drugs going up and up. There's been an increase in terms of household spending on prescription drugs over the last decade of about 70%. Compare that to food and housing and other basic needs, which is more like 11%. We know that overall this country is spending $21 billion on drugs, and it's growing 12% a year. I want to know what you are doing to bring down the price of drugs and to make it affordable for Canada.

Number one, I'd like to know what you have done to effect implementation of the federal-provincial agreement on a national pharmaceuticals strategy signed in, I believe, 2004.

Number two, what are you doing about your department's recommendations and another department's recommendations, Industry Canada, to help provide doctors with information about cheaper versions and putting in place a mechanism so that doctors can then prescribe based on, yes, quality, but also on when drugs are similar and there's a cheaper version to prescribe the cheaper one?

Number three, what are we doing about the kickbacks in terms of the generic drug industry to pharmacies and why that's not being passed on to consumers?

Number four, what are you doing about evergreening amongst large pharmaceutical companies, and are you prepared to act finally on some of the insidious patent protection beyond even the 20 years through notices of compliance with conditions?

[Tony Clement, Conservative, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Thank you very much for that comprehensive list of questions. Let me just say generally that, first of all, we do have an ongoing discussion with my provincial and territorial counterparts on the national pharmaceuticals strategy element of the 2004 health accord, and I dare say that at our next federal-provincial-territorial meeting in December it will be a topic of conversation. Certainly, what I've laid out to the provinces is that I think there are ways we can work together that will save money for the drug benefit plans in some areas, which then can be reallocated for catastrophic drugs and for expensive drugs for rare diseases, so there is a way to make this self-sustaining and possible.

Whereas our means may be different, our end may be the same.