Evidence of meeting #15 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
You have a unanimous report from a task force. In their opinion, the most effective way to mitigate is regulation. Can you tell me what the push-back has been, or why this is not regulated? Why are trans fats not gone from our shelves and from our restaurants?
9:35 a.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
Regulation is still one of the options that is before us and continues to be before us. The commitment that--
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Why is it an option, when the minister strikes a task force to ask for their opinion and their opinion is to regulate?
This was unlike the sodium working group. I suppose they learned by the time they gave the mandate to the sodium working group that they could only then consider non-regulatory measures, but accidentally it slipped through that they were allowed to recommend regulation in the trans fat task force.
It does boggle my mind that on the question on the order paper, the answer is still assessing regulatory and non-regulatory options. What is the push-back? Why has this not been regulated?
I have to question Ms. Tanaka. This does not have to be a big legal framework; this is a regulation. It's just a piece of paper. It's just a signature. What is holding us back from just saying, “Thou shalt not”?
I understand because of canola and others that it might not be the European level, and we might have to be at 3% or whatever, but why can't we just do it?
9:35 a.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
Again, to support the regulatory framework--and it is, again, one of the options that is being examined right now--
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
But it's the option recommended by the task force that the minister struck. The minister struck a task force; why is the advice of the task force not being taken?
In terms of the playing field and leveling the playing field, it's not really fair for the companies and the restaurants that are doing this. I think the government has to have more than pompoms cheerleading that it would be better if certain companies did things. You can actually get this off the shelves, as it was before 1970.
If the option is butter, I would love to know what's the matter with a little bit of butter. It isn't poisonous, as trans fats are.
9:35 a.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
Actually, butter contains or is a source of trans fat. It is actually a dairy-based product. We know, as one of the witnesses indicated, that there are natural sources of trans fats, particularly fats of animal origin, specifically ruminants. Dairy products are one of the sources of trans fats.
Part of the assessment we are conducting right now to inform the decision-making process, including resort to regulation, is how these regulations would work vis-à-vis the natural sources--
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
You're using subjunctives four years later. Four years later, you're wondering how it “would” work. Why can't we just do it and put everybody to rest? From everything we hear from industry, they would just like to know what the rules are so they can be within them.
This has been four years of purgatory.
9:40 a.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
I can mention that one of the elements that's very much under consideration right now vis-à-vis regulations is to ensure that safe alternatives are available and to study the impacts of these alternatives. Essentially we learned from the situation in the 1970s, when we tried to address public health impact vis-à-vis saturated fats. There was clear documentation about the health effects. There was an alternative proposed to increase the shelf life of those fats to avoid saturated fats, so we introduced partial hydrogenation of fats. That essentially increased the shelf life, and we obtained feedback to address the needs of the processed food industry.
In this case now, we have learned from that experience. We're looking at all replacement options to ensure that we do not have unintended health effects. In this regard, we are actually using regulations. In fact, Health Canada is using its regulatory oversight to manage novel foods. Some of the oilseeds that were mentioned by one of the witnesses are actually subject to Health Canada's oversight. We have approved a number of them, most recently as of March 2008.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Why is Canada so different from, let's say, Switzerland or Denmark? If they can do it there, why can't we do it here?
9:40 a.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
The food supply in Canada is definitely different from the food supply in Switzerland and Denmark. In fact, Canada, or North America generally, as was mentioned, made an investment in the 1970s to rely heavily on partially hydrogenated oils, so essentially the problem was introduced at that point. That's why we reached a point where our Canadian food supply had one of the highest levels of intake. The measures that will be proposed have to be adapted to the Canadian reality, and that's what we are assessing. It's to inform our decision-making process.
9:40 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I wish to thank the witnesses for being here today.
In her presentation, Ms. Brown told us that the four-year timeframe had been deemed sufficiently long for the various stakeholders to adjust to regulations requiring a sizeable reduction of trans fat in food products. However, several players are today saying that this does not give them adequate time. Ms. Brown however stated that all of the stakeholders were at the table when the four-year period was established and that there was no dissenting opinion.
I would like to know why this timeframe was sufficient four years ago but no longer is today. This question is for all of our guests.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Who would like to start off with an answer to that one?
Monsieur Godefroy?
Go ahead, Mr. Hetherington.
9:40 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Baking Association of Canada
Thank you.
I think it's important to look first at the chronological order of the recommendations that came out of the task force. The report was issued in June 2006. As a result, the latest monitoring data were done at the end of 2008, so when we start talking about our overview of the implementation and monitoring of the food supply, that actually occurred in a two-and-a-half-year period. We actually want to look at a four-year period in a chronological order. That period would be ending sometime in 2010.
I would also go back and point out that the task force did make special mention that there may be very narrow areas in which specific products, such as those in baking, might require an extension.
That is why we've come back before the committee to suggest in part of our submission that we not use the data from 2008, which is the last monitoring set. Instead, let's understand where the food supply is today. I can say that I've been discussing their reformulation efforts with my members. A number of them have now completed reformulation. One finalized reformulation just last week. It hasn't happened within the time period established by the minister for voluntary compliance, but that work has continued.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
You therefore consider that the situation has been resolved.
9:45 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Baking Association of Canada
No. As I said in our submission, I believe it's necessary to understand where the market is today before a final determination is made with regard to the voluntary approach, which I would also like to make known is an approach we didn't ask for.
I'd like to ask the committee a question. If we are at that less than 1% energy level, would that be deemed successful?
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Mr. Godefroy, is the 1% level an arbitrary measure or a scientific measure? Is this percentage considered to be negligible? We have learned, based on data from the Harvard School of Public Health, that trans fat is a killer. Does it only kill starting with a concentration of 1%, or is it harmful to human health whatever the level may be?
9:45 a.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
The level of 1% of energy intake is science-based. In fact, we are seeking ways of reaching a level of 1% or less. This is a recommendation of the World Health Organization. The calculation relating to the incidence of trans fat and the dietary intake of trans fat is scientifically based. The aim is that all avoidable sources of trans fat...
As I stated, trans fat exists naturally; it is part of one's natural diet. It is present, naturally, in certain food products, for example dairy and animal-based products. The idea is to adopt a diet that minimizes the intake of trans fat. The objective is to reach a level of less than 1%.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Therefore, natural trans fat is acceptable, but all of the rest must be removed. Is that the objective?
9:45 a.m.
Director General, Food Directorate, Health Products and Food Branch, Department of Health
The objective is to reduce as much as possible the presence of trans fat in food production.
9:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
In February 2007, this committee heard a professor/scholar from the University of Guelph, Mr. Alejandro G. Marangoni. He told us that he had, in his own home, developed a substance that, according to all of his studies, could adequately replace trans fat. I would like to know if, within your industry, you have taken note of what Mr. Marangoni told us. Have you decided to work with him, concretely, in order to apply his research, in practice, in your industry. I well remember — and some colleagues around the table will as well — that he gave us some cookies containing this substance in order for us to taste them. It therefore was workable for the baking industry. Have you worked with Mr. Marangoni with a view to eliminating trans fat in your industry?
9:45 a.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Baking Association of Canada
In response to various opportunities and conversations with the gentleman, we've actually had him speak at our events, etc. We asked him about specific information related to his product and its applications to the baking industry.
I don't know its current status, but I also understand that they had issues bringing the product to market. I don't believe those issues were associated with industry acceptance, but with production. To my knowledge, that product is not currently in the market. I could get back to you with a definitive answer, but that product is not in the marketplace.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative