Health Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm sorry, Ms. Davidson, we have to go on to the next speaker.

Ms. Beaudin.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Welcome to all of you.

First, I would like to put a question to Ms. Pellerin. I also sit on the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities, and there is a lot of discussion there about poverty, about low-income families who sometimes have to make certain choices.

What interests me a great deal are your ideas for solutions and your recommendations. You referred among other things to taxing soft drinks and energy drinks. Mr. Jeffery also suggested abolishing taxes on healthy products. In both cases, this would encourage people to make healthy food purchases. For having worked in a previous life with these low-income families, I remember very clearly that they often made specific choices. For instance, if a soft drink brand was on sale—let's say, two bottles for the price of one—whereas a litre of milk cost much more, those families chose to purchase the soft drinks, even if they knew that the milk was healthier. They put Coke on the table, because it cost less.

Have you assessed this idea of reducing the cost of certain products? Is it a factor that would encourage people to make the right choice in greater numbers? Have you done any studies or surveys to verify that?

[Suzie Pellerin]

In fact, the impact of such a tax on a vulnerable clientele is a source of great concern. Kelly Brownell, from the Rudd Center, indicates that we should also question the fact that the marketing of these companies often targets lower-income clients and thus creates a need. However, that is another issue.

We propose that the revenue from that tax be used to improve access to healthy foods. Thus, in Quebec, we suggested to Minister Bachand that he invest in schools in order to improve the quality of meals and facilitate access to the school cafeteria for children who may not be eating well.

The idea is really to create a fund. We must not forget that for each cent per litre, Canada would obtain $35.8 million more, a sum that could be invested in prevention. We are talking about the creation of wealth that would undoubtedly improve access to healthy food products.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Jeffery, what do you think of that?

[Bill Jeffery]

First of all, I'd like to say I agree with Madam Pellerin.

If I could just add, one of the central rules in economics is that price affects consumption. You increase the price and consumption goes down; you reduce it and consumption goes up. And this is one of the reasons why taxes on tobacco products were such an important tool for reducing tobacco consumption in Canada.

We're not proposing radical increases to taxes on food; we're just saying don't tax fruits and vegetables.

I think Ms. Davidson asked me a question about this in 2006 or 2007, whenever you were doing the obesity study, and my point was the same. Don't tax fruits and vegetables, and for heaven's sake, reconsider the exemption for bacon, chicken wings, lard, and sweetened breakfast cereals. It just doesn't make any sense.

The federal government collects between $3 billion and $4 billion a year from GST, and provincial governments get around the same from their portion. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Ms. Pellerin, are you in a position to tell us whether what has been done in Quebec up till now—in particular with the Consumer Protection Act—has produced results? Certain families even told me that we should think about where these products are placed in supermarkets.

Have you done this sort of thing in Quebec? Has anyone? Are there results? Have you managed to eliminate certain products that get children's attention, and even that of parents?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Can we have the answer? You're running out of time.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

You were talking about marketing. Is this marketing also directed to the parents? We must also concern ourselves with the parents.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Ms. Beaudin, did you want an answer? You have 30 seconds.

[Suzie Pellerin]

It is a complex phenomenon. The marketing aimed at children is everywhere and it is extremely powerful. You have only to think of the McDonald's brand, which is recognized by 93% of children from 3 to 5 years of age, who don't even know how to read and write yet. You can imagine the power of the exposure to those brands and the impact this has on their demands. You have only to go to the grocery store on the weekend to see mothers and fathers being irritated by their children's incessant demands.

As for the Quebec law, displays were excluded from it. It focuses much more on traditional advertising and we know that Quebec has a lower obesity rate than other Canadian provinces. As the lady was saying, various factors explain our collective weight gain, but that probably is a contributing factor.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you so much. I gave you quite a bit of extra time to try to get that in, so thank you for doing that so eloquently.

Ms. O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome here this afternoon.

It's my second day on this committee and I want to hear all these interesting facts. When I look at myself in the mirror, I think they should have put me here when I came two years ago, and maybe got me straightened out a long time ago. But I have to say how interesting it is.

One point I was going to mention is that, over the years, that is all I heard all my life: having a mother and a grandmother with diabetes, I should be very careful. So I'm just wondering what percentage of diabetes has the hereditary factor.

[Aileen Leo]

Certainly having a family history of diabetes is a distinct risk factor that people should be made aware of.

This is particularly for people who have family members with undiagnosed diabetes. As my colleague mentioned a moment ago, approximately a million Canadians are living with undiagnosed diabetes. In other words, they don't know they have it. That's critically important in terms of ameliorating such things as screening programs across the country.

So that's a very important, critical factor to consider.

[Glen Doucet]

Out of interest, we had a diabetes screening booth on the Hill in December. We had about 140 of your colleagues come through. I can't disclose how it went, obviously, but we provided a lot of important information to a lot of people who came through that booth and who were unaware of their risk.

The best thing you can do is to have your risk assessed annually, and to follow up on it. As we said, a simple 5% to 10% reduction in a person's average weight can reduce their risk by over 50%. Not knowing can kill.

That's not to scare....

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

No, no, but maybe it will straighten me out.

As well, can you discuss the different types of sugar and whether any can be described as healthier than others?

[Sandra Marsden]

I wouldn't say that one sugar is healthier than another. There are different types of sugar: sucrose, glucose, fructose. Ultimately, all sugars and carbohydrates break down to glucose, and that's what's used by the body.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

But is there one sugar that promotes or causes weight gain more than others?

[Sandra Marsden]

No, they're treated like carbohydrate, which is what they are.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Yes.

As a teacher, I certainly would shiver when I would see the little ones coming in with those energy drinks. What's in those drinks that's really helpful to kids such that we allow them to be out there for them? I've read the labelling, and I don't see anything that I would want to promote to children, but there must be something in them that helps them, or....

That's one thing that I think should be labelled.

[Bill Jeffery]

I don't think there's anything in there that helps children. In fact, one of the concerns with energy drinks is that they mostly have sugar in them, and some electrolytes, and also stimulants. A lot of them have caffeine in them, and guarana, and some other substances.

There's a culture among particularly young boys that you drink these and maybe it will make you perform better in sports or whatever. It's kind of a “tough guy” thing. That's a really unfortunate culture. I know that some school boards, and certainly other countries, are very concerned about kids consuming these energy drinks. They're concerned about the stimulant effect. Some of the ingredients are associated with heart arrhythmia. I think you've heard testimony--it was before your time on this committee--from a father who was concerned about his teenage boy dying prematurely from consuming energy drinks.

Certainly the high calorie consumption--the excess sugar or other caloric sweeteners--is a problem.

[Suzie Pellerin]

Various organizations are members of the coalition. For instance, the Réseau du sport étudiant du Québec. It also exerted strong pressure on us to include energy drinks in our tax proposal, because they are witnessing a phenomenon. Student sports teams will in fact attribute victory or defeat to the consumption or non-consumption of energy drinks. So you have these young athletes, role models, who are consuming these beverages thinking that this could have an impact on their athletic performance.

We received calls also from high schools, where energy drinks were being sold across the street. We are talking about 12 cans for $10. Thus, in the afternoon, in school, the children were impossibly agitated because they drank this at lunch hour.

Also, a cardiologist who is a member of the coalition told us that unfortunately this is an emerging phenomenon and there is not much knowledge on it at this time. However, in the emergency department where he works, he sees 20-year-old young men turning up with heart problems.

I think a great deal of research is going to have to be done on the issue so that we have a good grasp of the effects of those products.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Dosanjh, I understand you don't have any more questions? Okay.

Now we'll go to Mr. Uppal.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

I just want to start off with the Diabetes Association. How does Canada compare with other similar countries in terms of obesity and diabetes?

[Aileen Leo]

Unfortunately, in terms of peer countries, OECD countries, we have a very high rate of diabetes, and we also have the third-highest rate of mortality from diabetes amongst those countries. We have a significant problem in terms of prevalence and also diabetes-related mortality.

In developing countries, the rates of diabetes are higher, but that's not really a fair standard by which to judge. We should be judging Canada against more developed countries. Despite the fact that we are a wealthy developed country, our rates of diabetes are high, and our rates of diabetes-related mortality are also high, unfortunately.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

I have a question that I will open up to whoever would like to answer. What role can industry play in making healthy choices attractive, especially to children? There was the example of McDonald's now having apples and milk as options. Instead of drinking pop, you can have milk with your meal. That's a choice they provide.

Are there other things that industry can do?