Evidence of meeting #41 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was e-cigarettes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Cardiovascular Surgeon, Trillium Cardiovascular Associates, As an Individual
Yes, of course.
Trying to put it within a medical framework, I think, in an already overburdened health care system, would be a disadvantage to the people who are going to seek out electronic cigarettes. I do not see it as a prescription drug.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks, both of you, for your participation and very well thought-out presentations.
Dr. Bhatnagar, can I ask you, your product that you're marketing, is it a rechargeable product?
12:50 p.m.
Cardiovascular Surgeon, Trillium Cardiovascular Associates, As an Individual
We carry the vaporizers, which are rechargeable, as well as the disposable products.
12:50 p.m.
Cardiovascular Surgeon, Trillium Cardiovascular Associates, As an Individual
Yes, sir.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Could your product be used to do your own compound and put it in there?
12:50 p.m.
Cardiovascular Surgeon, Trillium Cardiovascular Associates, As an Individual
There are two—
12:50 p.m.
Cardiovascular Surgeon, Trillium Cardiovascular Associates, As an Individual
Yes.
There are two fundamentally different types of vaporizer technologies. There are ones that are dry herb vaporizers. Let's be honest, there's one dry herb that people are looking to use in that type of vaporizer. We do not deal with that at all. The type of vaporizer we use is suitable only for liquid.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Because the liquid widely available would be propylene glycol or vegetable glycol and so on.
12:50 p.m.
Cardiovascular Surgeon, Trillium Cardiovascular Associates, As an Individual
Yes, usually the propellent or the admissible liquid is propylene glycol.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Mr. Sweanor, you're suggesting that we don't want to get caught up in minor or theoretical or hypothetical risks. I can appreciate that Dr. Ostiguy, who was here before you, with a career of trying to help us with smoking cessation, yourself, as a thoracic surgeon, yourself as a campaigner, because of a highly motivated wife—we all know how motivating that can be for any of us—would be very keen to make sure we eliminate cigarette smoking, which is far worse than the e-cigarettes. I think most of us are probably convinced that there is a reduced risk. What I'm very concerned about is looking beyond the smokers of today—10 years from now, 15 years from now, 20 years from now, what else is going to be inhaled? Doctor, as a thoracic surgeon, you're well aware, and I'm sure Mr. Sweanor is, that when you change the delivery mechanism.... Ingestion is vastly different than inhalation because the product is going directly to your body, and particularly to the brain, and bypassing the liver.
That's what my concern is: what else? In my world—I'm from the west coast, marijuana central—
12:50 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
I don't want to get carried away by the discussion there, but anyway the point is we've had lots of illegal marijuana production for ages, and now we have medical marijuana production coming online. But already online are your own make-your-own vape products—it was mentioned here earlier—and how to do it. The concern is that all kinds of other products—and Terence mentioned a few—and medications, almost anything could be powderized, ground up, mixed with propylene glycol, whatever's solvent or soluble there, and put into these chambers. What are we going to be dealing with?
Now, Mr. Sweanor, you're saying these are all theoretical risks, but who thought of crystal meth 20 years ago? Frankly, we didn't. The kids' experimentation with homemade drugs is a very serious problem, causing immense problems today. What are we creating if we don't very strictly limit this to the people who are mostly going to benefit from it, and that's the people who are trying to quit smoking?
12:55 p.m.
Adjunct Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Special Lecturer, Epidemiology and Public Health, University of Nottingham, England, As an Individual
The technology is already there, so if somebody's wanting to use these products for crystal meth or anything else, they can. The question is what are we going to do for the five million smokers? Anything we do with policy, we know that there can be unintended consequences. How do we control for that? We know that licensed pharmaceuticals in the United States, licensed by the FDA, kill 100,000 Americans a year, but in the absence of that, it would be much worse. What we do is we try to reduce that as much as we can. That's the importance of revisiting what we do—to say, is there something happening that we can further control? Certainly the first step, like preventing those 40,000 deaths a year from smoking, is so huge...to say if there is some unintended consequence, how do we then control for that? But let's not have the fear of that prevent us from doing something that could prevent those 40,000 deaths a year.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
12:55 p.m.
Adjunct Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, Special Lecturer, Epidemiology and Public Health, University of Nottingham, England, As an Individual
Yes.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
A remark was made earlier about kids getting their first cigarettes from their parents, and while I suspect that may be true, I also suspect that a vast percentage, at least 50%, are getting them from their peers. I had my first cigarette in grade 10 in the car of a buddy. I could name him. I went into my classroom and I had to head down the hall and throw up. I don't know why you'd ever have a second one after that.
The point is that kids are peer-influenced. Re-normalizing smoking is a very serious concern for many of us. We've made such great grounds, and I appreciate the remarks you've made. By the way, when you talked about Wells Fargo and eclipsing the cigarette market, we're talking about investment opportunity there, and they are an investment firm.
While there are commercial opportunities in e-cigarettes, we're concerned about the health implications of a new generation.
12:55 p.m.
Cardiovascular Surgeon, Trillium Cardiovascular Associates, As an Individual
I've tried to discern that down into two questions. One I might address has to do with concerns about the glycol. It's an organic molecule.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
It's not the propylene glycol I'm worried about. It's what might be used along with it.
12:55 p.m.
Cardiovascular Surgeon, Trillium Cardiovascular Associates, As an Individual
All right. Fair enough.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
It's the unknown breakdown of a number of chemicals. All the pharmacology studied has been about the product, but when you combust it—
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb
Mr. Lunney, we'll allow the doctor to provide his answers, and then we'll wrap up.