Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 17th, 2011

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I thank you for it. I just wanted to put to you for your consideration that underlying all the corporate tax numbers is a question of trust.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Well, thank you--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Underlying a budget that is forthcoming on Tuesday is a question of trust, so that's what I'd like to offer the minister an opportunity to address. Why was it wrong in Ontario, but not wrong nationally here in Canada, in Ottawa?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

In this two-minute round, we've now gone past three minutes. I recognize that I took some of that.

Mr. Minister, if you would like to answer very quickly, you have my permission. If not, I'll move to further questioners.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Very quickly, I'm not just sure what this individual is seeking here, but through you, Chair, they asked what happened. I'm not sure if they noticed, but we faced the deepest recession that this country and in fact the entire world have faced since the Second World War. I think that answers the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Albrecht, two minutes, please.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm sorry we don't have more time, because there are certainly a lot of questions we could have asked as it relates to the primary reason that we're here, which is related to the costing of government initiatives--and indeed, it should also be for private members' initiatives.

I want to ask a question relating to something Mr. Brison said earlier in this committee. He mentioned something about information that was released in 2005 that was similar to what the finance committee requested recently. I'm wondering, Mr. Chair, if Minister Menzies or his officials could clarify what information release Mr. Brison was talking about. Are there key differences between what his reference was and what was requested by the finance committee?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

You have about a minute for the response.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

The difference in 2005.... Let me just get the actual point on that.

The fall economic update in 2005 actually was an outlook for corporate profits as a share of GDP. It was published on one occasion and one occasion only.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Mr. Brison, I recognize you want to get in on this debate from the paper you have in your hand, but let's let the minister give his answer.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

But I want to table the document referred to by the minister. It's the November 2005 fiscal update and it refers to corporate profits before taxes. It does not discuss GDP. It's specifically corporate profits before tax over the five years. I just want to help inform the minister's testimony by tabling this document.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Even after I shared that all you were going to do is share some debate, you did so anyway. So thank you very much.

Minister, very quickly on your answer and we'll try to finish this round.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you, Chair. It's difficult to actually get an answer in here.

Those projections of corporate profits per se were not published, nor was the series of nominal GDP, which could enable the calculation. The outlook for corporate profits as a share of GDP in the 2005 outlook was taken from private sector economists and was actually on the public record, which would not, of course, be deemed cabinet confidence. That would be the fundamental difference. It's in the public domain, as we refer to private sector economists.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you, Minister.

Monsieur Nadeau, two minutes, please.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Minister Menzies.

On February 17, Mr. Page said, "Parliamentarians do not know whether the fiscal planning framework fully reflects the cost pressures generated by changes in crime legislation."

In March, Mr. Milliken said: "…procedural authorities are categorical in repeatedly asserting the powers of the House in ordering the production of documents. No exceptions are made for any category of government documents…"

Mr. Minister, why did you wait for the Speaker of the House to censure the Conservative government, on your government, before producing the documents needed for the proper work of parliamentarians? Why? Can you please explain this to us?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

You have one minute to answer, Minister, please.

[Ted Menzies, Conservative, Macleod, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm just checking my dates on this.

With all due respect, we provided, first of all, a response to the question of the finance committee on October 27, within the 10 days stipulated. Then on November 17 there was another motion passed seeking further information. We responded to that on November 24.

Then there was additional information. As I've said all along, the Department of Finance has actually provided more information than we at the finance committee requested. The additional information was given on December 10, 2010.

All information and more was provided to the committee.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Menzies, the fact remains that the Speaker of the House…

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

…censured your government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Monsieur Nadeau, your time is up.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

If there was a censure, it was because you did not do your job as cabinet ministers or as the party in power.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Monsieur Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you.