Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 21st, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

We have a suggestion.

[Andre Barnes]

It actually wasn't meant to be a separate thought, and I think the French better adequately captures it.

Mr. Proulx's suggestion of “they”--which would refer back to some other members, one line previously--would refer back in the same way that ils refers back to certains membres du comité.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay. Are we all right, and we now know what we're trying to accomplish on Mr. Lukiwski's motion, then, to change what he's attempting to change in English? Let's make sure we all understand before we get there.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

On a point of clarification to the analysts--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Do you want the English version to match the French version? If so, you will have to correct Mr. Lukiwski, because that's not what he wants to do. The English version would have to be changed to say:

“They further noted that the information binder...”.

[Andre Barnes]

It's a possibility for the committee to consider.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Would the words “They further noted” accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, Mr. Lukiwski, or do you still want to leave it where you are...?

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Yes, that's fine. My point, again, was just to illustrate on that particular sentence that there was a difference of opinion. By putting in the word “they”, which refers back to “some members” in the previous...that would be satisfactory.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Okay. Great.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

But it can't go the way it is, so my final....

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you for your help, Monsieur Proulx, and thanks to the analysts.

Mr. Lukiwski is now changing his to say “They further noted...”. That would work and make both say the same thing.

[Nicolas Auclair]

That would be in English.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Yes, in English it would say that.

All in favour of that change?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'm sorry, Mr. Young, I said I'd call on you for a further change.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Thank you.

That's in the last sentence.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

In the last sentence, you wanted to add something after the words “legislative measures”...?

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

I wanted to take the first three words out. So the sentence would start with, “The committee also stated that members of Parliament...”. Then we would change “had” to “have” and put it in the present tense, so it would read that “members of Parliament have the right to know the full costs of legislative measures while respecting the parameters of cabinet confidentiality”.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay.

Is there discussion on Mr. Young's amendment?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Walsh expressed to us to why this would be inconsistent, in fact, with the Speaker's ruling. The Speaker's ruling was quite clear, in that these data were not in fact a cabinet confidence. So referring to cabinet confidence in this is a bit of a red herring, and it's a bit of a distraction, so I'd be opposed to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

All right.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

It's inconsistent with what the Speaker told us and what Mr. Walsh told us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Okay.

Madame DeBellefeuille.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

I can tell you that the last sentences Mr. Young is referring to make sense in French. When we say “ils”, that still refers to the members and brings us back to “certains membres du comité”. So, in French, it flows because we know it refers to some members. I don't agree with removing the part Mr. Young is talking about. I feel that the last two sentences in French well express what some members said. That is clear from the paragraph as a whole. I don't think there is a problem in French. On the contrary, it fully reflects what is being said and the use of the word “ils” refers to the sentence: “Certains membres du Comité ont dit avoir du mal à croire...”. So there's a reference to this group of members who have already made two statements.