Procedure and House Affairs Committee on March 4th, 2014

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Hear, hear!

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

But it's not nearly as much fun as all of us working together, rolling up our sleeves, and trying to come up with rules that are fair for everybody. I was part of that process, and that was fun. It really was. It was good work. It was hard work and it wasn't perfect, but it was fulfilling. We were doing something important. We can get there.

I won't dwell on this, Chair, but again, what is the most significant difference between then and now? Majority or minority.

When we were in a minority, no one party—not the Liberals, not the NDP, not the Conservatives, and not the Bloc—could command and ram through a motion without at least one of the other parties being onside.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

It's better government.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That changes the dynamics of committee work overwhelmingly.

Now, did it slow things down a little? I guess, but would you call it a waste and say that the amount of work we did on the Chief Electoral Officer's report wasn't worth doing? I wouldn't make that statement. I'd be shocked. I'm ready to hear it if it's there, but I haven't heard anybody who participated say that it wasn't an excellent process or that we weren't doing good work, and that we weren't doing everything we could to be non-partisan and working just as members of the House.

Our motion is here because that's not where we are. It's where we should be, but that's not where we are, so over and over again, I keep coming back to my motion, because that's what's in front of us. I keep coming back to the three component parts. They all fit together. The only thing that's missing is the respect and political will we need from the government so that we can do this.

They can declare all the victories they want, Chair, if we get there. I have no problem with that. What we want is to get down to work.

I can't go far on this right now, but make no mistake, we know the game plan. The government's motion is going to be in front of us whenever they can manage to get it there, and let me tell you, somebody should start taking a look at that motion because it provides no details. It doesn't talk at all about what's going to be done. It just leaves it completely blank and talks about the endgame.

That's about all I can say now and still stay in order, but in terms of this process that's where we're going. There is me, with the floor, and then when that changes, Mr. Lukiwski gets the floor. He moves a motion and kills this motion dead by using their majority, with no debate. I guarantee you that it'll be a motion that's non-debatable, and he'll move it because he has the floor next, and then this motion is effectively dead.

Then he's going to move their motion, which provides no details, no outline of where to go, and gives them full control. That's the game plan. I guarantee you that there's a whole flood of them who, at the end of that little rant, will be ready to just burst up and down and applaud and say that's great, because that's the way they view this. They view this as an endgame, and the endgame is that they get to keep power no matter what.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I have a point of order on relevancy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I have to agree with you on that, Mr. Lukiwski, but he started through his own motion before he got to yours, so I'll let him go.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I won't stay long on it, because I know I can't, but I thank you. I do appreciate that. I do think it's fair to acknowledge to everybody what's going on here and what the expected steps are. If I'm wrong, fine. We'll watch how things unfold. If I owe somebody an apology, just point me in that direction, and I will do it.

But I doubt that will happen. That's exactly what they're going to do. Then they're going to try to keep us here as long as they can on their motion, so that by the time this committee rises, they have the motion they want that rams this through the committee the way they want, just the way they rammed it through the House. When they rammed it through the House, they said the reason that it had to come to committee was that committee is where the real work happens, and it would have effectively killed any possibility for any Canadian to penetrate the Ottawa security bubble to have their say—

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Again, I have a point of order, Chair, on relevancy. We know his opinion of us and what's happening.

Let's talk to his motion, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'll agree.

Let's go to the motion.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

The motion is here to provide, hopefully, an antidote to that, but that's where we're heading. Anybody who is watching this should do up their seat belt, because my motion is going to disappear the first chance this government gets. The next speaker on my motion—on my motion, I have the floor now—is the parliamentary secretary to the government House leader. He will move a motion that allows him to use the tyranny of the majority to shut us down.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Shame.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Once again, Chair, I ask the relevance. I thought we were talking about Mr. Christopherson's motion and not—

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I am, and I talked how this government is going to kill it. I am entirely relevant. When I start talking about yours, I get on thin ice. That's fair enough. I said that, but I'm talking about my motion and what this government intends to do using its majority. It's going to run over it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

Thank you.

When there's a point of order, I answer it. You did a great job of answering it, but as the chair, I get to do that.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Believe me, the last thing I want to do is jump in when I don't have to. I apologize. Please, carry on, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I'm going to tell you to carry on now. I'm just pointing out to you that I get to play that—

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes, you do. It was purely a mistake. I wasn't challenging your authority. I wouldn't do that. I might respectfully if I were making a counterpoint, but I would not show blatant disrespect like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

I think we can find a record of that, Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Well, I wasn't that bad. Come on. It cuts both ways. Let's be fair.

However, I do think—and I'll give you a chance to tell me if I'm wrong—it seems to me I am in order to at least speculate for less than a minute on what I think the government is about to do to my motion. That's all I was doing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

It is.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I won't comment on the other—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joe Preston]

It rubs against relevance, but go ahead.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Well, the procedure might, but I hear your point, sir, and I will not mention that motion again other than to say that if that passes, that's the endgame. They have total grip control. They had it in the House. They said they would show democracy here in the committee. They haven't. People have to wake up to what's going on, or this thing is going through. That's what's going to happen. They are going to get the floor.

Are they going to actually engage in my motion? That's not going to happen.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

I ask for the relevancy again. Mr. Christopherson just said he wanted to speak for a moment. I think it's been closer to five minutes or six minutes not on his motion but on what he suspects will happen after he gives up the floor.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

On a point of order, it is unprecedented in the history of Canada that the government would use its majority to try to shut down debate on a change to the fundamental rules of our democracy. That's what this is about. This bill would change the fundamental rules of our democracy.