Human Resources Committee on Oct. 19th, 2006

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Let's be serious here.

Just tell me, yes or no, whether you are in favour of anti-scab legislation and whether, yes or no, you were asked to speak against it because you are a Minister.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Mr. Coderre, following the use of replacement workers, some unions filed a complaint in specific strike-related situations. Since 1999, 18 complaints against unfair labour practices relating to the use of replacement workers have been filed with the Canada Labour Relations Board. Of those 18 complaints, 13 were withdrawn, three were heard and rejected, and two are still under consideration. So, as you can see, that is the current reality, and I repeat: the legislation works and we have to maintain the appropriate balance. In my opinion, we are now all aware of the fact that unions constitute a very important lobby. Having said that, if unions believe that this is so important, they should start by getting the provinces to pass this kind of legislation.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Minister, you are starting to sound like a broken record.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Then the federal government could do the same; but in this case, you're asking us to force their hand.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Minister, the lobbies don't have me in their back pocket. Let's talk about something else.

I'd like to give you another figure. This one comes from the FTQ, which got it from Statistics Canada. Between 1992 and 2002, 121.3 days were lost by 1,000 employees subject to the Quebec Labour Code; however, 266.3 days were lost by 1,000 employees who were subject to the Canada Labour code. You still have a chance to change things: on October 25, there will be an important vote, and you should be there. The people of your riding will be watching to see what you do.

I have one last question, Mr. Chairman.

You are also the Minister responsible for the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the regions of Quebec. You say that you like making decisions, that you look at all the files and that you check them one by one. But we are told that you had all your communication materials changed, and for one purpose alone: because you felt the image they presented was not good enough. That cost $27,693. We now know that the new image you have for your communication materials uses a shade of blue that looks strangely like the blue favoured by the Conservative Party.

Did you sign this contract— yes or no—and who was it awarded to?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

We'll have a very quick response, Minister, as we're out of time.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I just want to say that this does not come within the purview of the Minister of Labour. If this gentleman wishes to ask a question about the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the regions of Quebec, he has only to ask me to appear before the Committee, and I will then be very pleased to inform him that these communication materials will be used with partners and on many different occasions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Minister.

We're going to move to the next individual, Mr. Brown, for five minutes, please.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Minister, thank you for being here today. I certainly appreciate the information that you've provided thus far.

I wanted to see if you could speak briefly about the Employment Equity Act and if we can anticipate a review of that act.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Mr. Brown, as I mentioned earlier, we noted that groups did not agree on the approach to take with respect to pay equity. Some preferred that we use the Ontario model, others, the Quebec model, and still others preferred what was suggested in the Bilson Report, which contained 113 recommendations.

We analyzed all this material and concluded that as a minority government, this was not the right time to amend the legislation. What is important is ensuring that women's issues do move forward and that we are proactive in promoting pay equity. Because section 8 of the Canadian Human Rights Act advocates equal pay for work of equal value, we felt we should focus on enforcing that legislation.

We have 90 employees—inspectors—who go out and visit companies. Previously, they were not involved in this and didn't ask questions about pay equity. But now, they will. They will be asking contractors whether they are implementing pay equity measures in their company, whether they have considered the fact that the Canadian Human Rights Act requires them to move in that direction. They will be informing them, advising them and giving them the necessary tools to move forward and negotiate with their employees, in order to make pay equity a reality in their company. We believe that by taking this kind of proactive approach, we will all be winners and people will now be able to move forward and do what has to be done. If a contractor is acting in bad faith, of course, inspectors will be responsible for informing the Canadian Human Rights Commission, which will be in a position to carry out a much more serious investigation, possibly leading to sanctions. That decision would be for the Canadian Human Rights Commission to make.

I note that no one has asked any questions about pay equity in the House of Commons. That is probably because members of the Opposition have realized that this makes sense and don't dare ask us questions about it. It's been quite a while now. Normally, the Opposition's role is to question the Minister about the major issues, but there have been no questions on this in the House of Commons.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Do you have any more questions? No?

We' re going back to Mr. Lessard, for five minutes, please.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Minister. I'm going to ask you something that falls within your area of responsibility. In this case, I don't think you'll be able to blame others, because it concerns one of your recent decisions.

I'd like to begin with a statement you made in front of this Committee on June 6. You said: “I want to foster constructive union-management relations.” You also said: “My vision of the Canadian workforce is one where industrial relations are strong and durable.”

This morning, you were consistent. You maintained that same approach today, adding that, as regards labour relations, you hope that both parties—in other words, employers and unions—can also contribute in such areas as racism-free workplaces, equality in the workplace, pay equity and healthy workplaces. That presupposes that there is room for employers and unions to exchange views and work together. Yet this forum for working together did exist: it was called the Office for Labour-Management Partnerships, whose funding has just been abolished, as part of your $1 billion budget cuts.

How is it possible to reconcile that last decision with the wishes you expressed on June 6 and this morning?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Perhaps I could ask the Deputy Minister to provide additional clarifications in that regard.

[Munir Sheikh]

Chair, I have the director general responsible for this issue here. Can she give the information?

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Most definitely, yes.

[Elizabeth MacPherson, Director General, Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, Department of Human Resources and Social Development]

There is a labour-management partnerships program that is still in existence. It accepts applications from unions and employers who wish to work jointly on any kind of project that is intended to improve their union-management relationship.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

That program may well exist, but I'm talking about the Office. It provides a forum for employers and unions to get together to try and resolve their differences or plan the future in relation to major issues such as those I have just mentioned.

Did you know that you had done away with the budget that allows that committee to function?

[Elizabeth MacPherson]

I believe the organization the member is referring to is the Canadian Business and Labour Centre, which was part of the mandate of the Minister of Human Resources Development. It was an advisory council to that minister, and I believe it has been disbanded as a result of recent budget cuts.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

So, you did know.

This week, if memory serves me, Ms. Byers testified on behalf of the CLC. She expressed deep concerns about this.

Minister, labour and management have to work together on issues on which you claim to be seeking our input. So, our input will be to ask you why you have chosen to abolish this forum that allowed the two parties to plan their work and foster what you call strong labour-management relations.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

I would just say that there is more than one way to improve relations between the parties and to discuss improving productivity and healthy workplaces. And as evidence of that, I was mentioning earlier...

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Yes, I realize that, Minister, but there was only one such forum and that is what I'd like you to talk about. Are you prepared to acknowledge that this forum was particularly well-suited for meetings of the two parties at the national level, and provided an opportunity to cover a whole range of topics, such as those you have invited us to address this morning? But in response to your invitation, I'd like to talk about the real issues.

And I would like you to answer the following question: was the rationale for this decision, as the memo from Treasury Board and the Finance Department suggests, a belief that this organization served no useful purpose and that you had to cut the fat? If that's the case, then the parties should know that. They are very concerned about no longer having access to this national forum for discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Please give a very quick answer. We're out of time.

[Munir Sheikh]

We don't know what happened before 1999, but from 1999 until today we are not aware of any office that has dealt with labour-management issues under the supervision of the Minister of Labour. Nothing has been cut in our labour program as a result of the recent budget cuts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you very much.