Evidence of meeting #35 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employment.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
To make such a policy on inclusion in the workplace a success, we have in Quebec a piece of legislation which provides for a contribution of 1% of the payroll for training.
Could we also set a percentage of handicapped employees for each employer, a number of support workers, and minimal standards to make inclusion easier? I am trying to find out what we could do to promote integration in the workplace.
9:15 a.m.
Director, Community Development, Disability Action Hall
You're talking about some kind of affirmative action program. I can't see Albertans being too big on affirmative action programs, but I think it's a fabulous idea. You were talking earlier about things like job carving--helping employers understand that maybe jobs could be packaged a bit differently, so if there are areas that are difficult to work in, people could take portions of different jobs. I think there are some employer education pieces as well. I would certainly support an affirmative action type of program.
9:15 a.m.
Member, Disability Action Hall
I agree that a Canadian disabilities act would be a great thing to have, very similar to the American disabilities act. I know that the Conservative government promised in the stand-up for 2006 to look at a Canadian disabilities act. We look forward to helping you participate in creating that. We know that in 1996 the Liberal government created a 50-page document on what that could look like, and we hope you can use some of that.
9:15 a.m.
Conservative
November 9th, 2006 / 9:15 a.m.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Thank you very much for being here. I heard on a number of occasions this morning the term “poverty” used very powerfully. You would think, living in the east and hearing all of the good news coming out of the west, that there would be no poverty out here.
I was at a forum last night where the room was packed--standing room only--with people very concerned about the emerging and worsening reality of poverty in Calgary. Any of us who have been close to it know that nobody chooses to live in poverty. It's just a myth out there that some people choose to live in poverty, enjoy living in poverty, or that living in poverty at a subsistence level of income is somehow this wonderful life.
I also discovered last night, hearing stories from people, and this morning listening to you, that often poverty is exacerbated by bad public policy. We don't seem to be able to get it together to help people who are struggling. Most people want to work and would love to work, but there are roadblocks they can't seem to get over.
I was a member of the NDP government in the early nineties when Ontario brought in the Employment Equity Act. It was an amazingly comprehensive and progressive piece of legislation, but did it ever get hammered out in the public, particularly by the Conservatives. They don't seem to understand the importance and the need for employment equity and creating opportunities, particularly for people with disabilities and mental health issues, to actually get into the workplace and work and stay there. We all know they have something to offer.
I spent a couple of hours after the poverty forum going to the shelter, walking the streets, and seeing what was going on in downtown Calgary. As this committee travels, we hear the Conservative members particularly--I'm disappointed that none of the Calgary members are here this morning to hear you--say that if there's an unemployment problem in other parts of the country, we should simply tell people to move to Calgary, move out west. There are jobs here and wealth to be had. There's money growing on trees, I guess.
I'm finding that there are problems for the people already here, and they can't get the jobs. In fact, moving hordes of people out here is just exacerbating the problem. I was in Victoria and we saw the same problem. There was a stock of affordable housing, but it's now being taken up by these new people who are coming in. They're pushing the poor out into the shelters and on the street.
What message would you want to send to government around that kind of reality? What is the real story?
9:20 a.m.
President and Chair, Alberta Division, Canadian Mental Health Association
One comment that I'd like to make is about the issue of affordable housing. Whether you're talking about people with mental illness, people with disabilities of any kind, or people living in poverty, affordable housing is an absolutely critical issue, particularly in Calgary.
I'm a native Calgarian. I remember when we had 300,000 people. We now have a million. The incidence of homelessness is rising proportionately. Every year, we're struggling with all sorts of emergency issues, like trying to not have people freeze on the streets.
Cutting across all three levels of government—I happen to work for the municipal government—the municipal, provincial, and federal governments need to get together and do a whole lot more on affordable housing. That's a really key thing in terms of addressing poverty, in terms of supporting people with disabilities. It cuts across a huge spectrum of issues. If nothing else were done but affordable housing, we'd see huge improvements in our world.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
9:20 a.m.
President and Chair, Alberta Division, Canadian Mental Health Association
Yes.
I'm not an expert on housing issues. I know there have been some initiatives. There have been pieces here and pieces there, but there needs to be a more comprehensive strategy. There's opportunity for the federal government in dealing with a number of different issues, but when there is a national strategy—
Certainly, the Kirby commission released a report, and it's really promoting the formation of a mental health commission. Whether you're dealing with mental health issues or disability issues or housing issues or poverty issues, there's a real place for federal leadership and initiative, recognizing that there are jurisdictional issues. Health is a provincial issue, and I recognize that, but I think there's a real opportunity for federal leadership in doing more national kinds of strategies to address some of these issues.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
What about a guaranteed annual income? Is that something you would support or see as helpful?
9:20 a.m.
President and Chair, Alberta Division, Canadian Mental Health Association
Lots of people would benefit from that.
I was listening to CBC this morning. There was an item about a study in Saskatchewan, in Saskatoon, that determined that income affects health, and I kind of went, “Yeah, like, this is not rocket science”. In social determinants of health, income and housing are critical. So if we're talking about a guaranteed income, that addresses a lot of the issues that affect a lot of people.
9:20 a.m.
Director, Community Development, Disability Action Hall
In regard to a guaranteed annual income, you have to be very careful how it's phrased, because there's one sort of guaranteed annual income that gives you enough to live on, and then there's the other one that gives you a guaranteed annual income, but after that you're on your own. The latter one really does concern me, because for lots of people with disabilities, the costs related to medical, housing, and other issues are hard to cover, and if you're on your own on those, they're too expensive. So it has to be a real living wage or a guaranteed annual income, but also with the community supports in place if you need additional supports. That's critical.
I would love to echo the housing thing. Housing is the biggest-ticket item for people who are living in poverty. There is lots of money in Calgary, but we don't share it equally. There are a number of people who are on fixed incomes and they're really suffering at this point. Their numbers are probably smaller than the numbers in other areas of Canada, but the cost of living all around them is just going up so much that people just can't keep up.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
I saw the pictures last night that you were talking about. They were phenomenal. What a project that is. I'm really disappointed it's not continuing, because that sort of thing gives other people confidence to get out and do something.
One of the things I noted last night was a thread running through some of the stories I heard: that people with mental health issues or disability issues or family issues have to leave the workplace from time to time because of their situation, and that immediately drops them into a poverty reality. The changes that were brought into employment insurance now see maybe only, if we're lucky, a quarter of the people who pay into employment insurance actually able to qualify to collect. Is that something we could be looking at changing to improve the lot of some of the folks on whose behalf you speak?
9:20 a.m.
Director, Vibrant Communities Calgary
Absolutely, and that was one of our recommendations. We know many other organizations, both here in Calgary and across Canada, are very supportive of going back and revisiting those changes that were made and that had extremely negative impacts.
Specifically, we would recommend the reduction of the current qualification requirement for eligibility from its current 910 hours back to 700 hours; a reduction of entrance requirements in low unemployment areas; reconsideration of the eligibility rules from the Employment Insurance Act in order to compensate for women's current inequalities in accessing these benefits, owing to their non-standard employment patterns; consideration of raising the benefit levels for parental leave under the EI Act; and development of an addition within EI to extend coverage to self-employed and non-standard workers, to reflect the changing dynamics. We know so many people now who are contracted out. It's a growing phenomenon.
9:25 a.m.
NDP
Tony Martin NDP Sault Ste. Marie, ON
There's also the phenomenon of agencies. That was something that came up as well. The agencies hire people, hire them out, and then take a premium piece off the top.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Thanks, Mr. Martin. I gave you two extra minutes. I'll get them back from you next time. How does that sound?
Ms. Yelich, you have seven minutes.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK
I thank you all for attending this morning. We are working on a disability act, but it's a huge encounter. We're trying to decide what “disability” is going to look like in terms of a definition.
Especially, I'm interested in hearing the mental health association this morning. We have to decide how to frame that in a disability act. I'd like to hear whatever you have to say about that if you were to define “disability” in a disability act. That would be an important part.
Dale, I really enjoyed your presentation. I know we don't have a full copy of it, so I'm hoping you will get one to the committee.
I also wanted to mention to you, Denise, your points about Ireland having a model. I'm interested in hearing a little more on that.
And I just want to make a comment on affordable housing. In the eighties, there was a real initiative to have affordable housing in a lot of villages in our province. Unfortunately, we're only forty miles from a city that is really growing and thriving, so we are finding that the houses are empty. During that time, a lot of money was invested. The people are now moving out of our communities, so our provincial government is now selling the houses off to people who are using them as cabins and second homes.
When you talk about a federal initiative, I would find that it might be a problem, because we really don't want to see those.... They were little units, and you may have had them in this province. They were duplex units for seniors and disabled people. At one time, it was a really good idea and it was very exciting to have these in our community. There were at least ten units, and two of them are being sold off for cabins, as I said. A lot of money went into them, so it's disappointing. I think it also goes to show that perhaps the province has to get a little more engaged in making sure they don't sell them off.
We are living just outside of a city. I wondered if there should be some encouragement in some way for people to move into these communities, not through legislation or regulation, but through some sort of incentive to move out of the cities, which is where, you're telling me, the communities are really having a tough time when it comes to affordable housing.
Given that, I'll start with each and every one of you who wants to answer.
Mr. Crowther, how would you see “disability” as a definition in a disability act?
9:25 a.m.
Manager, Advocacy Leadership, Canadian Down Syndrome Society
From our viewpoint, it's critical to include advocates in the actual process of defining that disability act. “Where the rubber meets the road” is really our perspective. That decision should be based on the needs and voices of the people who are affected by the legislation, the rules or regulations, or the act that's being made.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK
I wanted to ask you if you're familiar, being in Saskatchewan, with the Cosmopolitan and SARCAN in Saskatchewan. Do you have something similar in Alberta? Many of the Down syndrome people are employed there, and it is just an awesome example of what we can do in smaller communities with our environment.
It's excellent and it's exciting to go there. I always visit their establishments, and they're really awesome. I wondered if you were familiar with that or if you have something like it in this province.
9:30 a.m.
Manager, Advocacy Leadership, Canadian Down Syndrome Society
We are familiar with it. As far as something that's Down-syndrome-specific is concerned, there's nothing like that in Alberta. Certainly they do good work there. Our concern, I guess, is that even though they're in the communities, we're still tending to see that kind of workshop mentality.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK
Have you visited there? They've built some awesome things and they're very much a part of the community. They do patrols.
9:30 a.m.
Manager, Advocacy Leadership, Canadian Down Syndrome Society
Yes, but I guess they're still clumped together. They're not—
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK
They have the support staff, though. It's almost one on one, which also is very good. The environment is really healthy.
9:30 a.m.
Manager, Advocacy Leadership, Canadian Down Syndrome Society
Right. The one-on-one support, as Colleen was saying, is critical to that employment.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK
I think it takes a lot of will on the part of the community. It's the community's particular outlook. For example, in Saskatoon, at the Cosmopolitan centre, the work by those with Down syndrome is something to be reckoned with. In fact, I'm told that the best golf clubs are made there, at Cosmopolitan. I actually know someone personally who is picked up at the door by the bus and is taken over there.
So that certainly is a good model. It's something for you to encourage your provincial and municipal governments to look at.
Would you like to say something, Dale?