Evidence of meeting #41 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was workers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Pursuant to an order of reference of October 25, 2006, the committee will now commence consideration of Bill C-257, an act to amend the Canada Labour Code on replacement workers.

Just before I give the floor to Mr. Nadeau, I want to indicate some of the following items to our members who are present here.

The Minister of Labour could not be with us today, but he will be with us for an hour on December 5, at 9 o'clock.

I also want to welcome, in the name of the committee, Mr. Marc Toupin, who is the assigned legislative clerk who will be assisting the committee in its work regarding the bill that we have before us.

I also want to mention that we've received three new motions that have had their 48-hour notice, so we will reserve some time at the end of the meeting, scheduled for 90 minutes, to discuss motions with the members.

And I just want to remind all members again that the subcommittee will meet after the full committee, in this room, in camera, to select the list of witnesses who will be appearing before the committee next week.

Mr. Nadeau, I want to welcome you here. You have the floor for ten minutes, sir.

11:05 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I'll start right away with a presentation. Bill C-257, an Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (replacement workers), also called the anti-scab bill, should be adopted by the House of Commons. The reason is quite simple: replacement workers or strike breakers have no place in labour relations.

To this end, I'd like to quote an extract from the 1996 minority report by Rodrigue Blouin, a member of the task force responsible for reviewing Part I of the Canada Labour Code which stresses the illegitimacy of replacement workers:

The use of replacement workers undermines the structural elements that ensure the internal cohesion of the collective bargaining system, by introducing a foreign body into a dispute between two clearly identified parties. It upsets the economic balance of power, compromises the freedom of expression of workers engaging in a strike or lockout, shifts the original neutral ground of the dispute, and leads eventually to a perception of exploitation of the individual.

There certainly are naysayers when it comes to anti-scab legislation. For example, the Fraser Institute and the Institut économique de Montréal, two right-wing think tanks which twist the figures and make them say what employers want to hear. Unfortunately, our labour minister, relying on such partisan points of reference, stated the following in the House on September 22, and I quote:

There is no evidence suggesting a ban on the use of replacement workers will benefit workers in any of the ways claimed [...]

And yet, 29 years of anti-scab legislation in Quebec indicates the very opposite. The same is true of the anti-scab legislation in British Columbia which was enacted in 1993. Such legislation allows for civilized negotiation in a labour dispute, whether it be a strike or a lockout, reduces violence on the picket lines as well as the social upheaval and psychological problems caused by stress during such conflicts. It helps reduce employees' resentment when they go back to work, and promotes balance and greater transparency in negotiations between employers and employees.

This bill will ensure that labour and management negotiate on an equal footing with a view to reaching a fair solution as soon as possible. It reduces the number of lawsuits filed during a conflict, and helps to shorten the duration of disputes, which has the effect of minimizing employees' loss in income and employers' loss in profits.

Here are a few telling figures. Quebec workers whose employer falls under federal jurisdiction are virtually always under-represented in terms of the number of days of work lost. Therefore, although they constitute less than 8% of Quebec's labour force, they account for 18% of the person-days lost in 2004 and 22.6% of the person-days lost in 2003. This percentage peaked in 2002 at a time when 7.3% of Quebec workers employed by federally regulated organizations were responsible for 48% of the workdays lost due to labour conflicts.

The number of workdays lost due to labour conflicts disputes is less under anti-scab legislation. Let's take the legislation passed in 1997 in Quebec as a point of reference. The average duration of work stoppages in 1976 was 39 days, 33 days in 1977 and 27 days in 2002, which is even less.

In British Columbia, following the adoption of anti-scab legislation in 1993, the amount of time lost dropped by 50% between 1992 and 1993. The average number of working days lost from 1992 to 2002 was 16 days under the Quebec Labour Code, and 31 days under the Canada Labour Code.

The number of days lost per 1,000 employees from 1992 to 2002 was 121 days under the Quebec Labour Code and 266 days under the Canada Labour Code.

The Vidéotron conflict which lasted over 10 months alone led to 355 workdays being lost in Quebec in 2002. This is more than a third of the total work days lost in Quebec in 2002 due to a strike or a lockout.

The year 2002 was a record year when it comes to the number of person-days lost. It's important to note that this unfortunate fact is largely attributable to strikes in federally-regulated organizations, which are much longer.

As for the changes that need to be made to the current Canada Labour Code—

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Excuse me, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to break in for a second and move a motion, if I could.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Okay. We'll stop the clock on Mr. Nadeau.

Mr. Lake.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

Notwithstanding the motion adopted on November 23, I move that we add six additional meetings after December 7, starting on December 12, including the first five scheduled meeting dates following the Christmas break to hear witnesses.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Mr. Regan.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

If we're going to go to motions at 12:30, I don't see this as a point of order that needs to interrupt this witness.

11:10 a.m.

A voice

It's discourteous.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

It's not clear to me that it's an appropriate point of order to interrupt the meeting.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

I never called a point of order.

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

You obviously tried to interrupt. The question is, on what basis?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

The clerk informs me that it is in order, because it has to do with the study we're doing at this present time.

Madame Lavallée.

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Richard Nadeau's presentation is scheduled on the agenda. Out of respect for our guest, I think we should stick to the agenda. If there are any motions to be moved, that can be done later. I think interrupting our guest to move a motion of a logistical nature shows a lack of courtesy.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Okay.

I have Ms. Davies, and then Mr. Regan.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you.

I would agree. It seems to me that there's a time for committee business to discuss what kinds of meetings. There was discussion previously about the number of meetings to be held. To interject and to do this in the middle of a witness statement is very disrespectful.

So I would suggest we continue, and then deal with it as we would at the end of the committee, when we're dealing with other business.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Ms. Yelich, I'll put you on the list.

Mr. Regan, and then Ms. Yelich.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

It's pronounced “REE-gan”.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Sorry, Mr. Regan.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

It's only when President Reagan was elected that it started to become a problem.

Mr. Chairman, I've expressed my desire to make sure that we examine this thing clearly. I want to have a good understanding of the implications. I want to ensure that we deal appropriately with the question of essential workers, as we go forward.

In terms of how many meetings this means, it's not clear to me at this point. There hasn't been a discussion about what witnesses we're talking about, and so forth.

I expressed my concern last week that five witnesses at a time was a lot for a short period. I like the idea of four at a time, for example. We changed it, so we would have balance at each meeting, so that you'd have those for and against at the same meetings.

I don't know if six additional meetings is the right number. Mr. Lake has some argument as to why it's six. But it seems to me that we should start the study, and then when we come to a point where we figure out that we need to have some witnesses come back, then we need additional days, or whatever, right? I'm not convinced that today is the day we need to decide on this, and I'm not clear as to why it's six meetings.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you.

Ms. Yelich and then Mr. Lake.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK

I'll allow Mr. Lake to speak first.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Mr. Lake.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

My concern is that it was apparent from the last meeting that this is going to be jammed through. It's consistent with everything that's happened in this committee so far, as you know.

I believe we need to make sure, since this legislation is so important for both sides, that we hear the appropriate number of witnesses. This is why there's urgency to bring it up right now. It was clear to me that based on what happened at the last meeting, we were not going to get the proper hearing. It was absolutely clear.

I've had a lot of concerns with the way this went through last time. I think it's of the utmost importance. As for the reason why I would say six, we can debate that further as we need to, but I want to make sure that we have.... I'd rather err on hearing too many witnesses than too few, and that's why my rationale was six. We absolutely need to debate this legislation. It's very important that we have a thorough debate and hear all of the witnesses who want to speak to this.

It is absolutely not appropriate to limit it to two days in the same week, three weeks before Christmas, in terms of the number of witnesses we're hearing on this, and then cram it through.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Ms. Yelich.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Lynne Yelich Conservative Blackstrap, SK

With all due respect, if we are going to respect the witness, I think it is quite fitting that he be here to hear how important this is to us as well.

I was home in the riding, and there were many people interested in this legislation who I know will have a hard time getting their submissions in and getting their names on the agenda, because we have to make more contact. So it's going to take a little bit of time.

I'm going to be here most of next week. I don't have time to get back to the riding to start getting some of my witnesses together. I would really like to see Mr. Lake's motion go through quite quickly so that we can return to Mr. Nadeau's presentation. I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of it—because I have a lot of questions for him—so that we will be well informed of some of his arguments.