Human Resources Committee on April 26th, 2007

[Judy Streatch]

Thank you very much.

I think I would start by repeating a statement that I made during my presentation: one size does not fit all in Nova Scotia. We recognize that there are challenges for each different region of our province. We recognize that there are challenges for income levels in our province, and we recognize that those are very real challenges for the families in Nova Scotia. We want what's best for Nova Scotia. We want what's best for their families.

We also believe we have to be fiscally responsible, and the sustainability piece of early learning and child care delivery is key. I know the reference was made to not waiting 10 years for child care. We're not talking about sitting and creating and waiting. We have a plan. It's in place. We're moving forward, and we have to ensure that being able to sustain that plan is fundamental and is key.

So we went out and asked Nova Scotians what they needed. We had 26,000 consultations, and the answers we got back are part of the plan we are implementing in Nova Scotia.

As far as universality goes, universally publicly funded child care would require a very significant investment on behalf of the federal government, the provincial government, municipal governments, and in some circumstances in families. I question the sustainability of that.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Ruby Dhalla]

We'll have to go on to Ms. Chow now, because the time is up.

Ms. Chow, for five minutes.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you for being here.

How many spaces were created in the last two years, 2005 and 2006, in each of the provinces and territories?

[Jeanette MacAulay]

There were 200 new ones in P.E.I.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

It was 200 in 2005 and 2006?

[Judy Streatch]

That's correct.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

And for Nova Scotia in 2005 and 2006?

[Judy Streatch]

In 2005 and 2006, we funded to the creation of 194 in the first, but 294 in total for both years.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

How much money did it cost?

Sorry, I should ask that in terms of numbers. It's really similar to the other members—who asked how much money was spent, and how many spaces were created, in 2005 and 2006, in the last two years.

You don't know?

[Jeanette MacAulay]

We can't tell.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

And in Nova Scotia?

[Judy Streatch]

I'm going to let Virginia answer. There's some technical information that might be of assistance.

[Virginia O'Connell, Director, Early Childhood Development Services, Government of Nova Scotia]

Thank you.

With respect to the new spaces that we have in our province, we had an expansion funding process and we funded 294 new spaces. That cost $2.7 million.

But as you are aware, with new child care spaces you also have, of course, opportunities for child care subsidy, and we also provide for all of our full-day centres a grant called a stabilization grant, which would be an actual wage enhancement grant.

So if you're looking at 294 spaces, and then if you were to calculate the number of staff with respect to the ratios required, that of course would also mean other dollars. Overall, it's probably close to $4 million with respect to the actual expansion, plus the stabilization grant, plus the grants.

[Charles Dent]

Over the past two years—because I don't have it separated out to one year—we've seen about 200 new spaces created in the Northwest Territories. I can't tell you how much it has cost us to do that, since the growth of those spaces was largely in family day homes. There wouldn't have been a large capital expenditure to get them there.

But we do subsidize start-ups, so we provide grants even to family day homes, because they're licensed and regulated, to help them get up and operate.

I told you earlier that we had increased our funding by 20% in this fiscal year for child care. That's heavily weighted towards child care subsidies, both on the operations and on the start-up side. In fact, it's an increase of over 38% that we've put in alone to those two areas this year, so we expect we'll see even more spaces created over the next couple of years.

[Janet Davis]

We were slated to get $72 million, $45 million in capital. We got $20 million in operating, $15 million in capital, but created 3,400 licensed spaces and 2,000 fee subsidies for those spaces.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

You probably don't know that two days ago the mover of the bill agreed to have two amendments. One is for regulated home care and includes all the ones being created in the Northwest Territories, whether they're private, non-profit, public, or whatever. That is the amendment mentioned the day before yesterday. I think there is also an amendment that deals with the aboriginal community.

I understand that in 2005-06, if you add the multilateral framework agreement and the agreement that was signed by the former Liberal government, the Nova Scotia government received $54.4 million, and Prince Edward Island received $5.4 million. I saw an article that just came out that said your government has $35 million sitting in the bank for child care, and it's time to start spending it. That was an article in the Chronicle Herald.

According to the calculations, funds have been given for people in Nova Scotia, and in 2007 you're slated to receive another $17 million. So for the last two years, plus 2007-08, that's a total of $71.6 million. That's certainly a lot more than the $4 million, $5 million, or $10 million you may be planning to spend this year—plus the last two years.

Do you have money in the bank that you plan to use later to create more child care spaces? Certainly the math doesn't quite add up, as to the number of spaces created and the funding that was transferred from the federal government to the province.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Ruby Dhalla]

You have thirty seconds.

[Judy Streatch]

I can't even begin to answer that question in 30 questions. That's my favourite question, about why we didn't spend the money.

I would like to request a copy of the amendments that the member referenced. It would be beneficial for us to have a look at them if they are available.

To answer the question, you have to get it right, and spending the money without a thought-out, planned process for sustainability would be irresponsible of the Nova Scotia government. We are not prepared to be irresponsible, so we will continue to move forward with a plan that is solid for Nova Scotian families, one that's sustainable.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Ruby Dhalla]

That was 45 seconds—not bad.

We'll go to Mr. Lake for five minutes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I'll go in a different direction because I have to take advantage of having three provinces represented here.

As a parent of a child with autism—and I know you're all very aware of the issues surrounding autism—I just want to take a second to advocate on behalf of the parents I've heard from in each of your areas about the autism IBI treatment. The funding around those issues should be seriously considered as a priority in your respective jurisdictions. I'll leave it at that. I don't want to take that any further, but I couldn't waste the opportunity.

Speaking about priorities—I guess this is kind of a nice segue—we had a witness here earlier who made the analogy that this bill was like a parent turning over the car keys to their son or daughter and putting restrictions on their use of the vehicle.

There was no protest, of course, from Ms. Chow on this, but I would imagine that might be an interesting analogy to get your feedback on.

Do you see yourselves as kids getting the car keys from your parents, in terms of legislation like this?

I'll start with Ms. MacAulay.

[Jeanette MacAulay]

The older you get, the more you think that wouldn't be so bad.

I was here, and I heard that gentleman. On the money that goes into early learning and child care in our province, we spend it so prudently and preciously that we sure wouldn't want to put a dent in the car.

I'll rest my case.

[Judy Streatch]

I'll begin by saying that it's been a long time since my father passed me the keys to the car, and I don't want to remember the last time he did it.

We are so encouraged in Nova Scotia, as we have been in the past, to work with our federal government, to work with our federal counterparts. We want to negotiate. We want to consult. We want to be part of it.

So if you'd like to sit down and go over the rules of the road, we'd love to do that. We want to do that together.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

As equal partners, though, right?

[Judy Streatch]

As equal partners at the table, equal partners in the driver's seat.

I will make that analogy, but I did want to reference for the honourable member's information that we're extremely proud of our autism program in Nova Scotia. Ginny actually was one of the creators of a great pilot project that we put in place in Nova Scotia, $2.3 million specifically earmarked for children with special needs, and we will double that in this sustained plan. So we're pleased with that commitment.

[Charles Dent]

Thank you.

I think the minister from Nova Scotia has put it quite succinctly. I would agree that we want to be partners.

We saw that in the 2003 agreement. We were partners in how that was negotiated. We had agreed with the terms and conditions. We had all rejected a universal program, though, and said that it had to have the four components that we all agreed to, but it wasn't the same program across Canada. It was one where we had differences among all the provinces and territories. As long as we're involved in helping to set the rules of the road, as the minister said, then we're prepared to be partners.