Evidence of meeting #2 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was savage.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
Going back to the percentages, I think Mr. Chong talked about trying to have the number of seats that we have on the committee reflect the number of seats that we have in the House.
I would point out that obviously this proposal by Mr. Savage would give us each 25% of the minutes allocated for questioning in this committee. I would point out that the motion I put forward earlier would have only given us each, as Conservatives and Liberals, 29.3% of the minutes allocated for questioning, far below the percentage of seats we have in the House and significantly below the percentage of the vote we had at least, pretty close to the percentage of the vote that the Liberals had.
I'm not sure about Mr. Lessard's comment regarding the minority government, because obviously the motion that I put forward in the first place was more than fair, even considering the fact that we're in a minority government. We would still only get 29.3% of the minutes allocated for questions. Even so, we would still be in a situation where we were under-allotted in terms of the number of minutes allowed for questioning.
Obviously there's a game being played here. I guess the Liberals are playing a game of, you know, we'll shaft ourselves if we can only shaft you as well.
I would hope that common sense would prevail here and that we would take a look at something that was obviously unfair. If you were to go back before Mr. Savage and the rest of them joined the committee last time, there was an obvious unfairness. This is not the way the questioning rounds worked, going back into previous Parliaments. It was only the rules that were put in place after the last election. Anyone who watched what happened on the committee could tell that there was a clear unfairness in terms of the way those questioning rounds worked.
So I'd like to propose an amendment, that we leave the first round as is, but that in the second round we add a five-minute round for the Liberals and a five-minute round for the Conservatives, to get still below 30% for each of us but at least somewhere near some semblance of fairness.
I would point out that it would still leave one member of the Liberal Party and one member of the Conservative Party unable to even have a turn to ask any questions during most meetings, unless we have a chance to go to a third round, while each of the Bloc's members get to ask a question, and in fact, the NDP member gets a chance to ask twice as many questions as anybody else. So I would point out, when we're talking about fairness, that this gets taken into account.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
If I understand correctly, what you're suggesting is just inserting between round one and round two, the way it stands, the way Mr. Savage proposed, a second round, a short round of just one Liberal and one Conservative, before we move on to round three.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
No, I would say, adding one Liberal round and one Conservative round. Actually, what I would propose is that we replace the second round of questions in Mr. Savage's motion with a round that goes Liberal, Conservative, Bloc, Liberal, Conservative, NDP.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Okay, so we have an amendment there.
I have on the speaking list now Ms. Yelich, Madame Bonsant, and then Mr. Cuzner.
We need to look at speaking to the amendment right now.
Ms. Yelich.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Would you like to be put back on the list? Okay.
We're going to go, then, to Madame Bonsant.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
France Bonsant Bloc Compton—Stanstead, QC
Mr. Chairman, I propose that we vote immediately on Mr. Savage's motion.
November 19th, 2007 / 3:45 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It's my first meeting with the committee. I'm looking forward to being part of a productive group here. I guess this is the start of trying to work together toward something that works best for all, and in that spirit, I understand and respect what the government is trying to do here and the point that's being made.
One thing we have done in fisheries and oceans is that during the first round of seven minutes, we've gone to the NDP and Bloc with a five-minute round in the first round. What I might suggest is that in the first round we go seven, five, five, seven minutes to the Conservatives, then we go to the two five-minute rounds that the government is putting forward between the first and second round, and then on with the five-minute rounds past that.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS
No, it would be seven for the Liberals, five for the Bloc, five for the NDP, and then seven for the government. Then we would go to the two five-minute interventions by the official opposition and the government. Then we go back to round two. Is that okay?
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
All right, here's what I'm going to do, and I'm not going to give this more than five minutes. People asked for a quick recess. I have a couple of amendments on here; I can accept that, but we have to go back to those amendments.
My suggestion is that if I give you five minutes just to discuss what amendments you want to put forward, that would be done. If not, we've got to vote on the amendment that was presented. That would have to be defeated before you could present your amendment, Mr. Cuzner.
I'm going to break for five minutes. In five minutes we need to be back at the tables, please.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Order, please. We've had five minutes to discuss some of the motions.
I'll just remind everybody that we have an amended motion on the table right now by the Conservatives. I'll review that one more time. The first round is as is. The second round is Liberal, Conservative, Bloc, followed by Liberal, Conservative, NDP--all at five minutes each. That's where we're at right now. The third round would alternate between opposition and government. That's the amended motion we have on the table right now.
If there's no more discussion, I'm going to call the vote on that.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
I certainly can.
The first round would be just the way it is there: Liberal, Bloc, NDP, and Conservative, for seven minutes. The second round, which would be five minutes each, would be Liberal, Conservative, Bloc, Liberal, Conservative, NDP. Any subsequent rounds would be back and forth between opposition and government. What you have there is that the Bloc would get both of their interventions, and the NDP would get an extra intervention at the end of the round.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB
I want to speak to that before we vote. I want to make the point that I made before. Before we vote on this, I want to be very clear that under this amended motion the Conservative Party gets almost 7% fewer questioning minutes than we had percentage of the vote--lower even than our percentage of MPs in the House. The Liberal Party gets more question minutes than they would under the original proposal. The NDP and Bloc both get more minutes than their allocations as a proportion of the vote or a proportion of the seats in the House.
So under any measure of fairness, this amended motion is completely fair. I just want to make that point before we vote on this.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Lessard Bloc Chambly—Borduas, QC
If I understand our colleague Lake's motion correctly, in the second round, it will also be five minutes for each person.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
Oui.
If there's no more discussion, I'll call the vote.
(Amendment agreed to)
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Dean Allison
By all means.
The first round, which will consist of seven minutes each, will be as it's laid out there in the example: the Liberals, followed by the Bloc, the New Democratic Party, and Conservatives. The second round will consist of five minutes each for Liberal, Conservative, Bloc, Liberal, Conservative, NDP. Any subsequent rounds will go back and forth between opposition and government.
(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)
