Evidence of meeting #26 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), we're going to be looking at the main estimates today.

I'd like to welcome everybody. We have the minister here to answer questions. I know that Minister Solberg will have some opening statements.

The first round will be seven minutes, followed by a second round of five minutes.

I believe, Minister, you're here for the full two hours. I know the committee is very excited about the prospect of having you for two hours. I don't think there's anything else we need to cover at this point in time, so Minister, please start with your opening remarks.

9:05 a.m.

Medicine Hat Alberta

Conservative

Monte Solberg ConservativeMinister of Human Resources and Social Development

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning everyone. Bonjour.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before this committee to talk about the 2008-09 main estimates and the report on plans and priorities of my department.

Of the more than $87 billion in planned expenditures for my department, as noted in our 2008-09 report on plans and priorities, in excess of 94% will be in direct benefits to Canadians for child care, student support, skills development, old age security, employment insurance, and the Canada Pension Plan. The latter two, employment insurance and the Canada Pension Plan, account for approximately $45.5 billion of these total planned expenditures.

The 2008-09 main estimates total of $40.6 billion represents a net increase of $186.5 million over those from 2007-08 in the amount of $40.4 billion. The increase is primarily owing to changes arising from new funding for the labour market strategy for the implementation of the new labour market architecture to enhance the participation among under-represented groups and low-skilled workers; new funding for the aboriginal skills and employment partnership, the apprenticeship incentive grant, and the new horizons for seniors program;

increases in funding for statutory programs, including Old Age Security, Guaranteed Income Supplement and Allowance Payments; and

and new funding for administering programs, such as the temporary foreign worker program, to improve timeliness and responsiveness in services.

Mr. Chair, as minister of this portfolio, I've had the opportunity to see the positive effects it has on Canadians. Through such supports and measures as the apprenticeship incentive grant, the Canada education savings grant, the Canada learning bond, new labour market agreements with provinces, and the homelessness partnering strategy, we are making real inroads in improving the quality of life for Canadians. In the coming year, we will be building on these accomplishments by continuing to support children and families through the universal child care plan. The plan includes the universal child care benefit as well as transfers to provinces and territories and other measures to create child care spaces.

We will also continue to support vulnerable Canadians so they can break free from poverty. We will focus on addressing accessibility issues for people with disabilities by implementing the registered disability savings plan and the enabling accessibility fund so that all Canadians, regardless of physical ability, can participate fully in their communities.

We will also emphasize support for low-income seniors and prevent elder abuse through improvements to the Guaranteed Income Supplement and the New Horizons for Seniors Program.

With respect to helping Canadians break free from poverty, I've talked with my colleague Tony Martin about the committee's poverty study, and I'm glad that it's under way. I am hoping the committee can offer concrete, workable proposals based on solid indicators that will aid in informing our policies.

I also want to thank you for your study on employability in Canada. Your goal to increase Canada's supply of skilled workers is one that's highly complementary to the government's plan in Advantage Canada, which seeks to create the best educated, most skilled, and most flexible workforce in the world. Indeed, this is particularly important in meeting the challenges of slower labour force growth and the prospect of growing skills shortages now and in the years ahead.

I should also note that this government has taken steps to support many issues raised in the report. For example, we committed significant investments to support skills development, post-secondary education and immigrants, among other things.

I firmly believe, and I know that many of you do as well, that the best path out of poverty is giving people the opportunity to gain the skills, training, and education to get a good, well-paying job. In order to do this, we need to remove the barriers to participation in the workforce. Certainly there is a need for skilled workers. A 2006 PricewaterhouseCoopers survey found that more than 60% of companies believed a shortage of qualified workers is slowing their growth. This is happening across Canada.

Numbers have been released from several sources. The Province of British Columbia currently estimates a shortfall of 350,000 workers by 2018. Alberta Human Resources and Employment says Alberta faces a potential shortfall of 100,000 workers by 2018. The Conference Board of Canada says Ontario will be short 190,000 workers by 2020. Emploi-Québec says Quebec could see 700,000 job openings by 2011. Last year in New Brunswick, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business said that province had 17,000 job vacancies. We also know a resource boom is starting in New Brunswick, and the Benefits Blueprint community initiative predicts that will create another 33,000 jobs over the next 10 years.

According to my department's report Looking-Ahead: A 10-Year Outlook for the Canadian Labour Market (2006-2015), about 5.5 million job openings are expected across the country. Every region and every province shares this trend. The Looking-Ahead report confirms what is widely known: labour shortages exist in many industries, many skills, and many occupations. This mismatch costs us dearly as a nation. Jobs without people represent income not being generated.

The report reaffirms the need for a better match between supply and demand to ensure that new workers have the skills to do these jobs. This is an enormous challenge for our country, but an enormous opportunity for under-represented groups such as aboriginal Canadians, people with disabilities, and recent immigrants to participate more fully in the labour market. Building a knowledge advantage will be a primary focus of Human Resources and Social Development Canada to address labour market challenges and opportunities.

Seventy percent of the jobs of the future will require some form of post-secondary education. Budget 2008 enables the creation of a new Canada student grant program that will make post-secondary education more affordable to low- and middle-income students. The budget also adapts the Canada student loans program to help those with special circumstances to access post-secondary education. It will offer improved support for part-time students and improved measures to suit their needs, the needs of low-income students, students with children, and people with permanent disabilities.

Learning can also occur on the work site. That is why we have more than doubled the size of the aboriginal skills and employment partnership, a flourishing workplace training partnership among government, aboriginal peoples, and business. Budget 2008 committed to establish a new framework for aboriginal economic development by the end of 2008, supported by $70 million over the next two years for aboriginal economic development measures. We are seeing some strong results through aboriginal skills employment programs on this front and we want to build on those. At the same time as we work on the development of the new framework, the government will continue to engage aboriginal groups and other stakeholders in a successor approach to the aboriginal human resources development strategy expected in 2009. The new approach will better place the skills and training available for individuals in the context of employer and labour market demands. We will continue to work with my colleague Minister Strahl to deliver on these commitments to address the needs of Canada's aboriginal people.

From meeting with the Construction Sector Council, I am aware that the skilled trades need to be replenished by new entrants. Our new apprenticeship incentive grant is helping more people enter the skilled trades and progress through the early years of their apprenticeship in one of the Red Seal trades.

I know the committee is well informed on the targeted initiative for older workers. Our additional $90 million in funding to extend the initiative until 2012 should go a long way in assisting these capable and experienced workers aged 55 to 64 to improve their employability through skills upgrading or experiencing new fields of work. Under current funding, 63 projects have been approved and are assisting some 2,800 older workers to remain productive in the labour force.

We also support low-income working Canadians, the working poor, through the working income tax benefit. In 2008, this benefit provides up to $510 per year for individuals and $1,019 for couples and single parents at a cost of $550 million per year.

For unemployed Canadians, employment insurance benefits provide the first line of response. Our government continues to invest more than $2 billion per year in active employment measures under part II of the EI act. We have also taken important steps, through budget 2008, to improve the governance and management of the employment insurance account.

In the Budget Implementation Act, we are proposing to establish the Canada Employment Insurance Financing Board, which will implement an improved EI premium rate-setting mechanism to ensure that EI revenues and expenditures break even over time. The board will also be managing a new bank account, separate from the government's general revenues, where any excess EI premiums from a given year will be held and invested until they are used to reduce premium rates in subsequent years. The government will provide $2 billion to establish a real cash reserve, which the board will maintain.

Of course the Government of Canada and the existing Employment Insurance Commission will continue to have full responsibility related to EI benefits and program delivery, including eligibility and benefit levels.

We are also working with the provinces and territories to help more Canadians who are not eligible for EI to participate in the labour market. To date, we have signed five labour market agreements with the provinces. This goes a long way to fulfilling last year's budget pledge to invest $500 million annually over the next six years to help more Canadians to enter the labour market. These agreements will provide access to employment services and training for individuals who have little or no work experience, including aboriginal people, immigrants, and Canadians with disabilities.

In light of the current period of low unemployment and labour market shortages, vulnerable groups may have more opportunities to increase their labour market participation. We value their participation and contributions.

Today's seniors are living longer and healthier lives. Their participation in the labour force is growing. In recognition of this new reality, budget 2008 invested $60 million per year to ensure that low-income seniors who work can realize greater benefits from their earnings through an increase in the guaranteed income supplement earnings exemption.

In addition, Budget 2008 announced funding of $13 million over three years to raise awareness of elder abuse and to assist seniors in dealing with this difficult issue. This investment will support an awareness- raising campaign that will seek to help seniors and others recognize the signs and symptoms of elder abuse in order to seek the assistance they may require.

This investment builds on the work of the National Seniors Council as it travelled across Canada over the past few months listening to experts and community stakeholders. The National Seniors Council, established by our government in May 2007, continues to consult with Canadians on the needs of our aging population.

Finally, we recognize the connection between homelessness and mental health disorders; therefore, budget 2008 announced funding of $110 million to the Mental Health Commission of Canada. The funding will support projects in Vancouver, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal, and Moncton. This government is investing more on affordable and supportive housing than any other government in Canada's history. At more than $2.7 billion annually, federal spending on housing has never been higher. As you know, we need to make a decision on affordable housing programs by March 2009. We are also talking to people across Canada to learn their views on what works and what can be improved. We will also continue our dialogue with the provinces and territories on these issues, which concern all of us.

I have recently been travelling across the country meeting with business and labour leaders, workers and academics to gain a better understanding of how we can improve skills and fill jobs, and to make a difference in the lives of Canadians.

I think it is critical to move the Budget Implementation Act forward because there is a lot at stake for students, seniors, and other Canadians, including employers. To be precise, our goal is to implement the guaranteed income supplement earnings exemption, the monthly grants for eligible students from low- and middle-income families, and the improvements to the management and governance of the EI account.

I would be pleased to address the committee's questions. Thank you.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

Thank you, Minister.

I believe we're going to start now with the Liberal Party, and we have Ms. Dhalla, for seven minutes, please.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

Thank you, Minister, for taking the time to come before the committee today.

I want to speak in regard to an issue that I think is important to many Canadian families, single parents, and children across this country, and that is the issue of child care. We know that in 1991 Canada ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Article 2 of that convention prohibits discrimination of any kind. It says that equitable provision is to be provided, both resources and services, for children. It is one of the core principles stated within the convention, and I think it is a core value for many Canadians.

There was an analysis done by Ken Battle of the Caledon Institute on the new program that the Conservative government introduced of a universal child care benefit, also known as the UCCB. I think all of us around this table know that the $100 was provided to provide a choice for families, for their children. It was quickly discovered that after that $100 was actually put in, after taxes were considered, families were given about $60. And regardless of whether a family was making $100,000 or $10,000, they were getting that same $100 supplement. But the family that was making $100,000 a year was actually getting more benefit, despite the fact that a family or a single parent living in poverty would actually have more challenges in regard to child care.

The Senate then did a report called “Children: The Silenced Citizens” in April 2007. The government issued a response in regard to that. In the response it was stated that the department uses the agreement that was ratified at the Convention on the Rights of the Child to analyze all legislation that pertains or impacts children and Canada's obligations under the convention in regard to the rights of the child.

My question is, was an assessment done in regard to the UCCB in light of the fact that it does discriminate against families? We have a national report card that was issued by many child care organizations across this country, which I'm sure you had a chance to take a look at. I am just quoting from it. It states: “The Universal Child Care Plan isn’t universal—it’s taxable. It’s not child care—it’s unaccountable. There is no plan to expand and improve early learning and child care in Canada” by this Conservative government.

My question, Minister, would be this. Was an assessment done, and could you please provide a copy to the committee of that particular assessment in regard to the UCCB?

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

First of all, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank Ms. Dhalla for the question. I appreciate the chance to talk a bit about the universal child care benefit and about child care in general. This is a very important issue, and I think we all appreciate how important child care is for Canadian families.

It's true we brought in the UCCB because we did want to not only offer people choice but help them with the cost of child care. The UCCB has helped to lift 25,000 families out of poverty and has lifted them above the poverty line. In those families there are over 55,000 children, as I recall. So it does have an impact on helping people escape poverty.

That's the first point I would make, and that's part of my assessment of the benefit of the UCCB.

The second point I would make is that the UCCB allows people who have different situations that can't be addressed by child care to make different choices. And really there are many people in the country who are in that situation--people who work shift work; people who live in rural areas of the country; or people who simply make the decision because of their own values, or because it's simply what works best for them, to look after their children at home. So the UCCB is a huge help to them.

I would point out, as a matter of fact, that the UCCB is taxable in the hands of the lowest-income parent, so for many families there is no tax at all on the UCCB. I think it's important to lay that out.

Secondly, we've increased support for regulated child care spaces by $250 million. That amount will rise over a period of years. It's now $1.1 billion a year, rising to $1.3 billion a year over a period of years.

In addition to that, we've put in place a new tax credit that will help businesses and employers create child care spaces. That was just passed through the House at the beginning of December. We're seeing some interest from companies that want to start to offer that to their employees.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ruby Dhalla Liberal Brampton—Springdale, ON

Can you provide the committee with a copy of the assessment, please, if it was done by the department?

Secondly, you're talking about giving parents choice. Parents are getting $60 a month, which translates to about $2 a day. I know that in my riding of Brampton—Springdale and many other ridings across this country, 53% of children are in non-parental care arrangements--in day cares. They can't find spaces, and they cannot find day care for $2 a day. We need to ensure that we provide these families.... We owe it to Canadians to ensure that we have quality, universal, accessible, and affordable child care. We must invest in our children to ensure the success of our country.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Thank you, Ms. Dhalla.

We know from our own information that this has been extraordinarily helpful to many Canadian families. It has lifted a number of families out of poverty. I can provide you with that information.

The other point I would make is that since we invested in child care in the 2007 budget, the provinces and territories have announced their intention to create over 60,000 new child care spaces. So that investment is having an impact when it comes to regulated child care.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Minister, it's good to see you here.

I want to ask you a question about the transition from the Millennium Scholarship Foundation to the Canada student grants program, leaving aside the ideology of the move. In the first year, $350 million will go into this. Millennium was kicking off at about $350 million. What is the status of the Canada study grants and the Canada access grants?

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

When we make the transition, people who are currently receiving support under the CMSF will continue to get that funding until their studies are done. So those grants will continue.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Is that in addition to the $350 million?

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Yes, we're actually increasing it. Over the period of time that the new Canada student grants are put in place, the funding will go up.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

I understand that, but the Canada study grants and the Canada access grants totalled about $140 million. The millennium fund was $350 million and the new program is $350 million. What happens to the Canada access grants and the Canada study grants money?

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

The overall funding is going up.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

It's not going up; it's $350 million.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

I'm sorry, I'm not....

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

It's $350 million, according to the budget, for the new Canada student grants program.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

What am I missing here? I'm sorry. We're providing more funding overall so we can provide the new student grants and support people who are currently receiving CMSF funding under the old system. I guess you're talking about funding for the study grants. People who are currently receiving extra support will not lose that support. In fact, under the new programming the support will go up for people who have extra needs.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

It does not go up. It goes down to $2,000 from $3,000 in a needs-based system.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

What we're doing under the student grant—

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Does it not go down from $3,000 to $2,000?

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

Under the new program, all three of these will be rolled together.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

But there will be less money.

I may have to come back to that, Chair.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Monte Solberg Conservative Medicine Hat, AB

There won't be less money.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Michael Savage Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

According to the budget book, there will be less money because it's consolidated in the $350 million, which is equivalent to what the millennium fund was kicking off. But there were also the Canada study grants and the Canada access grants, which were about $140 million. So where has that $140 million gone?

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Dean Allison

I'm going to ask if we can come back to that in the next round. We're over time and will move on to the next round.

Mr. Lessard, you have seven minutes, sir.