Human Resources Committee on April 29th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

We're now going to move to Ms. Sgro. We have five minutes as we start our second round.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much.

It's nice to see you here.

As you know, we are undertaking a poverty study here, which is a really important piece of work that all of us are very committed to doing in a non-partisan way, but I want to say that if you don't have housing, it doesn't matter how many job training programs and programs to deal with all the other issues that we face if people don't have a roof over their head and a safe place to live. Frankly, if that is the case, the rest of the issues that we try to cover will not go anywhere.

Your number was 650,000 people who are in need of housing. Whether we're talking about mentally ill or not, we're talking about huge numbers. Peel Region has a 20-year waiting list for affordable housing. The City of Toronto probably has at least a 10-year waiting list. That`s a lot of people waiting to get into affordable housing who really want a chance to improve their lifestyle.

The affordable housing initiative and the renovation program will both expire in March 2009, as well as section 95, which refers to co-op housing. Those agreements will start to expire in March 2009, and we are almost at the beginning of May 2008. There are approximately 32,000 people living in co-operative housing across Canada who are very concerned about what's going to happen to those.

I've thrown a bunch of issues out to you, and since I'm sharing time with my colleagues, I would ask you to be as concise as possible with your answer.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you.

I agree with you that housing is the key to helping people who are living in poverty. I've spent a lot of time going across the country. I've been in the downtown east side and north Regina and, really, right across the country. I've been Saint John recently, and I was in Portland, Oregon, by the way, looking at what they're doing down there and seeing what has made them as successful as they've been. I agree that housing is a start. We are reviewing a lot of these programs right now because, again, I think we owe it to taxpayers but certainly to vulnerable Canadians to make sure the programs are actually achieving the ends they were intended to achieve.

In some cases, I think we can point to examples where the funding has not even been utilized under the affordable housing initiative, and in other cases some of this funding can't be utilized because there's already a big housing stock and they'd rather have other kinds of support. I'd be happy to talk to you about that, but I'm conscious of time.

Therefore, I do think we have to review these things to make sure they will address the problems both today and going forward.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Clearly, we know that the housing is a need. The fact that we're into May 2008 and not making decisions on where some of this is going, also knowing the time it takes for a roll-out of various initiatives, doesn't give people living in the co-operatives much comfort, waiting for you to review it and make a decision.

Do you have a deadline as to when you'll be making a decision?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Well, with social housing, I'll just mention, first of all, that there's no deadline on that. That's going forward. We are reviewing it. We've got a working group with the provinces to look at both the physical state of those properties and also the financial state of them, because some of them are struggling financially. So we're doing that, and that's a joint review.

With some of the others, we are reviewing them ourselves to make sure they are achieving the answers they're supposed to achieve. And of course we've also launched new initiatives like the on-reserve market housing fund, which goes forward from this point. It will provide 25,000 homes for people on reserves.

So there are a number of things going forward that are being reviewed--

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Do you have a deadline, in particular on section 95 to do with the co-ops?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I'm informed that won't expire to any degree for about five to seven years, so--

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Some are expiring in March 2009.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

There are some where they've paid off their mortgage. The question is, does the federal government continue to provide funding that was originally intended to pay off their mortgage? Well, their mortgage will be paid off. I know there's some pressure from groups to continue to fund organizations that already had their mortgages paid off. We're sort of struggling to understand the reasoning for that.

I think one of the most important things we can do--if I may say this, Mr. Chairman--is figure out why it is that some organizations were successful in maintaining their housing while they received that funding and have ultimately paid off their mortgages and have maintained a physical state, while others haven't. We need to make sure we don't continue to fund, in the same way as we have in the past, those that have allowed that housing to run down.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

Thank you. That's all the time we have.

We're going to move to Mr. Lake, for five minutes.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

Thanks, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming today.

I want to start by commenting on Ms. Dhalla's assertion that the $100 per month is actually $60 after tax. Of course, as Ms. Dhalla knows, the amount is taxed in the lowest-income earner's hands, so her numbers reflect a circumstance where the lowest-income earner in a family is in a 40% tax bracket, and of course most low-income families that I know of are nowhere near that circumstance. But it's typical of the Liberal spin. They had 13 years to implement something, anything, on child care and did absolutely nothing—not a single child care space created in 13 years. They did fund the Child Care Advocacy Association of Canada, I think, somewhere in the neighbourhood of $6 million. That was basically to be a PR arm of the Liberal Party, spinning the Liberal idea that it actually cared about child care, but for $6 million not one single space was created. Not surprisingly, the former executive director is now a Liberal candidate, so I guess that's typical of the Liberals' approach.

What I'm curious about, though, is actual results, so could you comment on how much we have invested in child care this year? Second, how many spaces have been announced by the provinces and territories? Third, how many families currently receive the universal child care benefit?

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

First, all in right now, we're putting about $5.6 billion a year into child care. That includes the universal child care benefit and direct transfers to the provinces, which this year are $1.1 billion. It includes the new child tax credit, which goes to families with children under the age of 18. All in, it is $5.6 billion, which is significantly more than any government has ever invested in these things.

Just as important, it provides people with choice, and I think that's wildly popular with many Canadians. In making sure money gets directly into the hands of parents, it also ensures that in many cases people just have more money overall for their children. As I said before, it lifts 25,000 families right out of poverty. There are 1.5 million families that receive the universal child care benefit right now, on behalf of 2.1 million children, so it reaches a lot of people today.

You had one other question.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

I was asking how many spaces were announced by the provinces and territories.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

So far, the provinces have announced their intention to create over 60,000 spaces. By the way, I should point out that not only are they creating spaces, but many provinces are having to reinvest, out of the $1.1 billion growing to $1.3 billion, to put money into things like supplementing wages for workers. In places like Alberta, but certainly not just Alberta, it's difficult to compete against some of the wages that are being paid in the private sector, so they need that funding for other things. There's enough flexibility to address all of those needs.

[Mike Lake, Conservative, Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB]

If I could, I just wanted to touch on one other thing that's important to the people in my riding: the temporary foreign worker program. You kind of commented on new funding for administering programs. I know we've taken some significant steps in terms of expedited LMOs, for example, and that is very much appreciated by some of the employers in the riding. But maybe you could comment on the program in general.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I would say two things about it.

That program is extraordinarily important to the labour force in the short run, because it helps meet some of the immediate needs, and now with some of the changes being proposed to our immigration system, we'll provide a pathway to permanent residence for temporary workers who meet particular standards. That's exciting, and there's a lot of support for that certainly from people who are the beneficiaries of that program, but also from unions, for instance, that are excited about that aspect.

Second, it's really important that we take steps to protect temporary workers so they don't face abuse. Under the law, temporary workers have the same rights as any Canadian worker. We have to make sure that is recognized in fact as well as in the law. So we've signed a number of letters of understanding with the provinces so we can share information to make the provinces aware of who is here. Then the provinces, who typically have jurisdiction, can monitor them and make sure they are being treated well. Alberta has been a leader on this. Manitoba has stepped up to the plate, and lately so has British Columbia. They've all stepped in with new support to make sure they've got monitoring in place.

As a federal government we're providing information in other languages: Spanish right now, for seasonal agriculture workers. So when they come in, they get information that says, here are your rights and here's who you contact if there are any problems at all.

[The Chair, Conservative, Dean Allison]

That's all the time we have for this round.

We're now going to move to Madame Bonsant, followed by Mr. Cuzner.

You have five minutes.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, as I only have five minutes, I would like you to give me brief answers. I will be discussing the Summer Career Placements Program. Currently, we are in the process of helping the organizations to receive funds.

I have two questions regarding this. We learned that the first draft, the first version of the requests made by the agencies was done in Montreal. It was subsequently transmitted to the local human resources, who continued working on it. We signed our agreements. We are now contacting the organizations by telephone to tell them that their applications were accepted. However, Human Resources Canada told us not to advise them by phone, because that would create a third procedure. This means that everything that we did is sent back to Montreal.

I would like to know whether there will really be a fourth evaluation in Montreal to refine the results of our work.

I also learned that the deputy minister is in charge of signing the decisions we make locally on behalf of organizations. I want to know whether the deputy minister is really the last one to sign. If the deputy minister signs the agreement, will this person be entitled to change our decisions? They are waiting to find this out before they can hire students. In my opinion, this is a waste of time. In common language, as they say, they are dilly-dallying. People need this information because they have to follow a process and they must publish their requirements in newspapers, through press conferences, and they must hold interviews. The month of May is already here and the university students have finished their session. I want to know whether they really go through all these antics and whether the deputy minister actually signs all our decisions.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you for the question.

First of all, it is true that we've tried to do a lot to be responsive to members of Parliament with respect to Canada's summer jobs this year. We have provided an untold number of briefings to lay out the process, and secondly, we've given the local Service Canada outlets the ability to work with members of Parliament to identify which groups should receive that funding.

I'm not aware of exactly how the process worked in Quebec--the way you are describing it--but in the end members of Parliament get to decide how that funding is spread around. If there is a dispute ultimately, and I don't anticipate any, that decision will come to me to work out with the member of Parliament. That's the way the system has always worked, and it will work that way this year.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

You are telling me that no one will override our decisions, which are final. Therefore, I can contact the organizations to tell them that they can begin their hiring process.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

No, remember what we said, though. When we laid out the process, we said that April 30 was when we would finish up the process. We made that very clear in all the briefings. So we don't want anyone to get ahead of that precisely because if there were disputes of some kind--and I don't know what they would be, and hopefully there won't be any--they would have to come to me and I would have to settle that with the member of Parliament and Service Canada officials.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

This means that once everything has been signed and approved, I can call the people and the organizations to tell them that they can begin their hiring process.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

No.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Fine. That is right.

[Monte Solberg, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

No, what we are asking people to do is just observe the timelines and remember that we pushed everything up this year compared to last year precisely because we wanted to give organizations more time. And I think we've done that.