Evidence of meeting #34 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was data.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Janet Davis  Councillor, City of Toronto
Brendan Wycks  Executive Director, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association
Anne Crassweller  President, NADbank Inc., Marketing Research and Intelligence Association
Laurel Rothman  National Co-ordinator, Campaign 2000
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Georges Etoka
Victor Wong  Executive Director, Chinese Canadian National Council

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

Ma'am, if I could, I want to follow up on a question. The way you've answered it, "It's a civic duty”, so is voting, but we don't make that mandatory as well. But that's a civic duty.

The next question I have--

9:35 a.m.

Councillor, City of Toronto

Janet Davis

Jury duty is another example.

9:35 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

Fair enough.

The next question is for Mr. Wycks, I believe it is, who said that privacy would be intruded upon, or that the unintended consequence would be that business would then have to ask questions and thereby intrude on citizens' privacy.

Is asking a question an intrusion?

9:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association

Brendan Wycks

No, I'm not sure I used the term “intrusiveness” in the example I gave, but it's the bothersomeness—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

Actually, you did.

9:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

So by its very nature, asking a question is intrusive?

I'm trying to figure out how you prove that Canadians would be more intruded upon if business had to ask the question instead of the government. That was the thrust of your argument.

9:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association

Brendan Wycks

Let me just refer back to that argument. Because the mandatory long-form questionnaire generates more reliable data, it is actually more effective at limiting intrusion into Canadians' lives by reducing poorly targeted marketing communications that would otherwise be sent to them, and by—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

But where does the increased intrusion come in if business is asking the questions?

9:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association

Brendan Wycks

Because the more robust, reliable data from the mandatory long form will no longer be available, private sector businesses will no longer be able to purchase that reliable data from StatsCan and therefore they will feel compelled to—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

So it's okay for StatsCan to intrude by asking the questions but not for business? Okay.

I have a simple question.

9:40 a.m.

Executive Director, Marketing Research and Intelligence Association

Brendan Wycks

Because it's a civic duty, yes, that's right.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

Okay, well, it's tortured logic.

So plan A, if I understand the witnesses today, is to try to convince the cabinet to change its decision. Should that not happen, what's your plan B for the information? What do you do about the information that you say you will be missing?

9:40 a.m.

Councillor, City of Toronto

Janet Davis

This is not a position of the City of Toronto, but I know there are those who are suggesting that you defer a year and undertake the mandatory—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

What's your plan B?

9:40 a.m.

Councillor, City of Toronto

Janet Davis

—long-form census in 2012.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

You're asking about the government's plan B.

9:40 a.m.

Councillor, City of Toronto

Janet Davis

There is not a plan B, because we do not have the capacity to replace the reliable information that we get from the long-form census.

I was cut off twice before, so if I could, I would answer the previous questioner on whether or not I believed the chief statistician, who said “...we are confident that the national household survey will produce usable and useful data that will meet the needs of many users.” The questioner neglected to finish the paragraph, which concluded: “It will not, however, provide a level of quality that would have been achieved through a mandatory long-form census.”

Moreover, the chief statistician concluded:

We have never previously conducted a survey on the scale of the voluntary national household survey, nor are we aware of any other country that has. The new methodology has been introduced relatively rapidly with limited testing. The effectiveness of our mitigation strategies to offset non-response bias and other quality limiting effects is largely unknown. For these reasons, it is difficult to anticipate the quality—

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Excuse me. Thank you so much. I want to thank you. Just to let you know, I'm not cutting anybody off, but we all adhere to time restraints around the committee table, just so that you are aware of that.

9:40 a.m.

Councillor, City of Toronto

Janet Davis

Okay, I'm sorry. I'm animated. I'm excited about this.

9:40 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Yes, thank you very much.

I want to thank all of you for appearing before the committee.

I will suspend the meeting now for just one minute so that we can change the witnesses, as we have other witnesses who are going to appear.

Thank you.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

Good morning to our witnesses. Thank you so much for being here and thank you for your patience.

We have two groups represented. We have Campaign 2000 and the Chinese Canadian National Council. Each one of you will have seven minutes to make a presentation. I would ask you to please introduce yourself.

We will begin with Campaign 2000, and Laurel Rothman, national coordinator. Please begin. Thank you.

9:55 a.m.

Laurel Rothman National Co-ordinator, Campaign 2000

Thank you.

Chair, members of the committee, and other participants, I'm pleased to be here to represent Campaign 2000. As you may know, we're a non-partisan cross-Canada network of more than 120 national, provincial, territorial, and community groups committed to raising awareness about child and family poverty and proposing practical solutions.

We appear today in support of the long-form census, a critical part of the statistical system that provides for accurate data at the national, provincial, and small-area level. It's collected, from our point of view, at a reasonable cost to government, and from all we know and have read, it respects well the privacy of Canadians and protects information. In fact, I know that clearly from looking at the data, where you see numbers of suppressed cells, particularly in smaller provinces. To our knowledge, that privacy has never been breached by well-respected Statistics Canada.

Our specific recommendations—and then I'm going to talk about our rationale—urge the committee to indeed use its powers to ensure that the mandatory long-form questionnaire is included in the 2011 census of Canada. We support the government-appointed National Statistics Council in its August 12, 2010 statement that sets out a series of proposals for the long-form census, including removing the threat of jail from the long form and setting out a regular and transparent process for reviewing current questions and adding new questions for future censuses.

We also support the proposal to amend Canada's Statistics Act as was set out in a letter in September to the Prime Minister from Ivan Fellegi, former chief statistician; David Dodge, former Governor of the Bank of Canada; and two former Clerks of the Privy Council, Mel Cappe and Alex Himelfarb. I should say that we've reviewed that in order to assist us in making this decision.

Our coalition is a network representing low-income people, those providing services in health, housing, child care, education, food security, child welfare, as well as faith communities, women's groups, labour organizations, social planning councils, and many others. As you may or may not know, Family Service Toronto is our lead partner and host, and that's where I work. I'm going to talk a bit about my Toronto work later on.

Each year we do a report card, which you're probably familiar with. In addition to doing the national report card, we coordinate our partners in seven provinces who do report cards on the provincial situation with regard to poverty. One of my tasks is to coordinate the acquisition and distribution of data. As you know, the importance of clear, reliable, and consistent data is central to making convincing arguments on many issues, in particular, poverty and low-income status.

Whether we're the food bank people, the child care providers, the affordable housing providers, or health care providers, we work with people every single day and see the situations face to face on a one-to-one basis. But we know that objectivity and credibility of the data are what we need to try to make the case with people like yourselves and provincial legislators across the country.

So we rely on Statistics Canada's sound data and we also work with a community social data strategy that the Canadian Council on Social Development coordinates. So we're quite distressed with the removal of the long-form census because we see it as limiting our ability to illustrate the true statistical picture of poverty in Canada, and it will also limit the planning of many of our service-delivery partners. You're probably aware that in many situations, data for the Atlantic provinces is often not available on anything other than the census because the sample is too small and is considered by Statistics Canada as not acceptable for release. So our partners use the data in their local trends.

We at Family Service Toronto use the neighbourhood profiles that the City of Toronto prepares using data from the long-form census. I wanted to illustrate one particular way in which the lack of the long-form census data will impact our work and I think the bigger picture regarding children living in poverty in Canada, and that's on a chart that I actually.... I don't know if you got it; I e-mailed it to the clerk yesterday. It's a chart that we did regarding child poverty rates for selected social groups over three different censuses, 1996, 2001, and 2006.

Do you have the chart there?

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Candice Bergen

No, I'm sorry, we don't.

10 a.m.

National Co-ordinator, Campaign 2000

Laurel Rothman

You don't have it, okay.