Evidence of meeting #47 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was case.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:40 a.m.
Bloc
11:40 a.m.
Bloc
Josée Beaudin Bloc Saint-Lambert, QC
I understand what Mr. Komarnicki is telling me. However, even if someone appeals, that will be before the board of referees or an umpire. We'll come back to that because it's important to know who decides in the context of that kind of conflict.
What are the main reasons why employees go before the board of referees?
Ms. Gendron, earlier you talked about problems of—
11:40 a.m.
Coordinator, Mouvement Action-Chômage de Trois-Rivières
I talked about problems of voluntary leaving and harassment
11:40 a.m.
Advisor, Mouvement Action-Chômage de Trois-Rivières
It can be a dismissal, leaving, antedate, a proceeding after a time period has expired, an overpayment, a fraudulent statement, unavailability.
11:40 a.m.
Bloc
Josée Beaudin Bloc Saint-Lambert, QC
Is there any particular reason that stands out more than others?
11:40 a.m.
Advisor, Mouvement Action-Chômage de Trois-Rivières
No. Once the commission has rendered a decision, it's up to the claimant to appeal that decision.
11:40 a.m.
Advisor, Mouvement Action-Chômage de Trois-Rivières
As an organization, we are there to determine whether he has the power to appeal. We determine whether the appeal has any chance of succeeding, and whether there are arguments to put forward. If we believe that, we also check to see whether the commission has made an error of law or misinterpreted the facts. From there we make a decision with regard to the appeal.
11:40 a.m.
Bloc
Josée Beaudin Bloc Saint-Lambert, QC
Three members constitute the board of referees. Do they have to agree unanimously in order to issue a decision, or does there have to be a majority of two out of the three members?
11:40 a.m.
Bloc
Josée Beaudin Bloc Saint-Lambert, QC
So if only two members are in favour, that's a majority—I don't know how they reach it. Do the two members have to agree?
11:45 a.m.
Coordinator, Legal Department, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
Yes.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Josée Beaudin Bloc Saint-Lambert, QC
You mentioned deadlines. We're talking about appealing deadlines.
Unless I'm mistaken, sometimes an employee is given one day's notice or told the day before that his appeal case will be heard.
11:45 a.m.
Coordinator, Legal Department, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
No, it's not that way.
11:45 a.m.
Coordinator, Legal Department, Confédération des syndicats nationaux (CSN)
To put it briefly, a hearing notice is sent to the employee, generally 15 days in advance. However, the date is announced orally at first and then confirmed in writing. That's not a problem as such.
The problem mainly concerns the appeal docket. The person knows that he or she is appealing but does not have the docket. So that person may receive the evidence that the commission has one week in advance. The person can then submit the docket to the board of referees, which is fine. However, when the representative has only two days before the hearing, we often see that the representative is missing various things. It's done at the last minute. So obviously, that's—
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Josée Beaudin Bloc Saint-Lambert, QC
Thank you, I have my answer.
I want to make sure I've clearly understood the situation. Some decisions are made, an employee wins his case, and, in spite of everything, the Employment Insurance Commission appeals the decision. If it does so before the twenty-first day, the employee does not receive employment insurance benefits during that time. In spite of everything, the commission withdraws its case before the final decision is reached. So the employee wins his case and the Employment Insurance Commission nevertheless appeals. Am I mistaken about that?
11:45 a.m.
Senior Assistant, Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, M.P., As an Individual
That's correct.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Josée Beaudin Bloc Saint-Lambert, QC
What costs does that represent for an employee when you look at the majority of cases you handle? Does appealing involve legal fees? I'd like to have an idea of the costs that entails.
11:45 a.m.
Senior Assistant, Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, M.P., As an Individual
This kind of situation results in various costs. First of all, there is the worker who has no income. At that point, he goes into debt because his rent and various payments are due. Then, if that person has to appear before the umpire and isn't represented by a lawyer from his union, he has to bear certain costs. In fact, before the umpire, it's legal rules that are studied. Very few people will appear there alone. They also won't appear before the board of referees because they need specialized people such as the representatives of the Mouvement Action-Chômage. Incidentally, in the Saint-Hyacinthe region, they have an efficiency rate of 85% to 90%. That may be why the commission often appeals.
However, there is a psychological cost for the person concerned. I know that, when people call us at the member's office and at Mouvement Action-Chômage, they're often hard pressed and aggressive. We can understand the frustration at not receiving benefits when a unanimous decision has been rendered, was well supported and entitled them to receive benefits. That decision is being questioned by the commission, which is going before the umpire. In some instances, it can take up to a year to get a hearing before the umpire.
So when someone from the commission decides to withdraw a few weeks before the day of the appearance before the umpire, it's even more frustrating. The commission will call the person back and ask when he or she is going to be available, what they are doing and whether they have a job. They exercise a kind of harassment against the person who has become very frustrated.
11:45 a.m.
Conservative
March 3rd, 2011 / 11:45 a.m.
NDP
Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you very much.
I apologize that I wasn't here for the earlier part, so if I'm asking questions that have already been asked, humour me, or tell me to just read the transcript later, please.
I think the board of referees used to transcribe decisions, right? First of all, let me just ask if that is still available uniformly? Transcription services are still there...?
So if you have a number of people from a workplace coming to the referees, trying to appeal an initial decision.... Let's say there are 30 workers from a workplace. They would all come one at a time, potentially. They're not necessarily heard at the same time and they may get different outcomes.
Let me start at the beginning. How do you deal with 30 people from the same workplace? How do we ensure they all get the same outcome in a similar situation in the same workplace?
