Evidence of meeting #61 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was training.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Thank you. We will move to Ms. Charlton.
Okay, make a quick comment, Ms. Leitch.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
Okay, make your short comment.
All right, we'll move to Ms. Charlton.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Thank you very much, Chair. I am particularly pleased to see representatives from Mohawk College here.
Being a member of Parliament from Hamilton, I know that Mohawk has had a really long and strong history of bringing labour, industry, and the college to the table on apprenticeship programs, and I think it's part of why it has been so successful in the past.
Just let me ask you one really quick question. We've heard in past testimony that the average age of apprentices is 25. Is that the experience at Mohawk as well?
10:35 a.m.
Dean, Business, Skilled Trades and Apprenticeship, Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology
I don't have an exact figure. Anecdotally, we're in that range as well. It is in the mid to high 20s.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
That's a relatively late age for people to start contemplating what their future career may be. This suggests, I think, and we have heard it from others, that there are significant barriers to entering apprenticeships.
Mr. Reiser, you spoke to conversations with the manufacturers and exporters on the challenges SMEs have, from an employer perspective, in terms of offering apprenticeships. I certainly appreciate those.
I think there are also a number of barriers potential apprentices face in wanting to enter apprenticeship programs. I'm hoping that as a committee, we will look at both sides of that equation.
Mr. Reiser, again, you spoke about EI and the challenges the current EI system imposes on apprentices with respect to getting money in a timely fashion. We've certainly talked a lot on this committee about how processing times have now increased rather than decreased and that we've added to rather than reduced the challenges.
I wonder whether all of you might comment on what you think is the most pressing issue we as legislators need to address to make apprenticeships attractive and tenable for young Canadians. Come at it from the apprentice side and tell me what your number one recommendation would be that we need to look at. Thank you.
10:35 a.m.
Director, Yukon and British Columbia, Dean, Faculty of Trades and Technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada
Number one would be access to an apprenticeship.
10:35 a.m.
NDP
Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Having said that—I'd like you to be really quick on this one—if the reality is that young people are getting access to apprenticeships but they're not completing, then that can't be the only barrier, right?
10:35 a.m.
Director, Yukon and British Columbia, Dean, Faculty of Trades and Technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada
Well, no, there are other issues around non-completion. One of the issues is the requirement for the certification to work in the field. In terms of it being mandatory in such trades as plumbing and electrical, as been mentioned before, that's not across the board. So why would they complete when they don't have to?
The other thing is that employers are employing workers without that requirement.
10:35 a.m.
Conservative
10:35 a.m.
Dean, Business, Skilled Trades and Apprenticeship, Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology
If I had to pick one.... The Canadian Apprenticeship Forum did a study a few years ago, and found that perhaps 82% of employers who were eligible to hire an apprentice chose not to. For a myriad of reasons, they're not participating in apprenticeship programs.
So if I had a wish, it would be how to engage those employers. I would think, though, if we engage those employers, the supply is there. Young people are there. They want to participate. They just can't get their foot in the door to get started.
10:35 a.m.
Director, Policy, Polytechnics Canada
To answer your question, I'd say the fundamental problem is that we're treating the apprentices as employees instead of students. We need to see them as students, treat them as such, and provide them with the support that we provide to other post-secondary students.
If we keep using 1990s mechanisms to support apprentices, we're going to get 1990s completion rates going forward.
10:40 a.m.
Manager, Government Relations and Policy Research, Public Policy, Association of Canadian Community Colleges
My comment is from a personal point of view. My son did his apprenticeship training in Quebec, where it's done all up front but with no real understanding of the pathways in terms of how to find an employer who's going to sponsor you.
So I think, although it's an employer's perspective, I think from a young person's perspective there's not even the understanding that first they have to find someone who will take them on. I think there's a challenge there in terms of understanding the pathways into apprenticeship for youth.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ed Komarnicki
You have about 30 seconds left for a comment or a short question.
10:40 a.m.
NDP
Chris Charlton NDP Hamilton Mountain, ON
Mohawk College has been doing a superb job with first nations communities in trying to bring more first nations students into the college, and I would love to have heard just a little bit more about whether that's being reflected on the apprenticeship side as well.
10:40 a.m.
Dean, Business, Skilled Trades and Apprenticeship, Mohawk College of Applied Arts and Technology
Yes, just very quickly.
We work very closely with Six Nations. A couple of years ago we started partnering with their training institutions to help them develop their own instructors to deliver their own training. It's been a really neat experience. We've evolved to the state now where their instructors come down and do joint PD with our instructors, and our instructors go and do PD with theirs.
We've taken a little bit of a different look at the apprenticeship piece of our partnership, because they do prefer to deliver on their own, to their own folks, in their communities.
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
Joe Daniel Conservative Don Valley East, ON
Thank you very much.
Along the same themes as my colleague across the way, and Kellie here, I really still don't understand why the associations, that have colleges from every province and territory under their group, cannot come up with an agreement in terms of standardization across the board, particularly as probably more than 50% of all the tradespeople, as we've heard this morning, are from the building trades in terms of apprenticeships.
Can you comment on that?
10:40 a.m.
Director, Yukon and British Columbia, Dean, Faculty of Trades and Technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada
Why are the directors of apprenticeship not getting along? Is that your question?
10:40 a.m.
Conservative
10:40 a.m.
Director, Yukon and British Columbia, Dean, Faculty of Trades and Technology, Kwantlen Polytechnic University, Council of Deans of Trades and Apprenticeship Canada
Well, each province and each region has its own individual standards, and they are based around Red Seal standards of competencies.
