Human Resources Committee on May 7th, 2013

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Tell her it is much appreciated.

Before we continue, I would like to say a few words about provincial areas of jurisdiction. As an elected representative of Quebec, I find it rather strange to have the federal government want to take leadership with respect to certain decisions within this area of jurisdiction. After education, health care is probably what is most specifically exclusively under Quebec's jurisdiction.

So, let's talk about employment insurance. At least we will be dealing squarely with an area that is clearly under federal jurisdiction. We will then move on to something else because I would like to call upon your expertise on a matter. However, that will be supplemental. Indeed, I cannot see myself telling the provinces what to do to cross all the t's and dot all their i's. It would not go over well.

It is quite interesting to see that on three occasions, there has been talk of better support for employment insurance. If I understand correctly, it would be to provide continuing education. Intelligent choices were made by some governments over the last 30 years, those that did not dilapidate their EI funds. When they had a surplus, they sat down with representatives from the various occupations to determine what intelligent decisions could be taken with respect to continuing education. In this case, unfortunately, we do not have these tools at our disposal. The fund was dilapidated and now we are being told that it is in a deficit.

Could you tell us what type of initiatives would be most constructive for your profession, in the event that this fund could be recapitalized intelligently over the coming years?

[Linda Silas]

I really believe we have to build bridges between the more senior nurses and our recent graduates. I say this everywhere I go, here or at the health committee, this is not strictly under provincial or territorial jurisdiction. In the case of this project, we have been working with the Fédération interprofessionnelle de la santé du Québec. As for the other five projects we did with the federal government, we had people asking: “Why not us?”. It was not that they were considering what the province would ask for, it was an add-on linking recent graduates and experienced nurses. That is what is missing in the system. This link does not exist. Yet it is important.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Are you saying that employment insurance would cover part of a young nurse's salary while she is in training?

[Linda Silas]

Or an experienced nurse's salary working part-time. In his presentation, Dr. David Foot who is a demographer at the University of Toronto, was explaining to us that if people over the age of 55 worked part-time, the payroll savings would allow us to hire all of the recent graduates who are under 25. In other words, this entire population of unemployed youth could be working if people over 55 worked part-time.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

This is in your area?

[Linda Silas]

In the entire sector.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

The entire sector? That is a vast societal plan. It is interesting, but it is broad.

Our chairman will tell me that I am off topic if I continue in this vein.

[Linda Silas]

For nurses alone, it would reduce some risks. As we know, workplace injuries increase with age.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Do we know the rate of job retention for people 60 to 65 years of age in this field?

[Linda Silas]

It varies from province to province. In Quebec, the percentage of people in this age bracket working full-time, in other words 35 to 40 hours per week, is 55%. In Alberta, it is 35%, whereas in the Maritimes and Newfoundland, it is 70%.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Is there really such a marked difference from one province to the next?

[Linda Silas]

Yes.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

In your opinion, what explains this great disparity between the regions?

[Linda Silas]

Again, provinces believe human resources are better managed when there are fewer full-time positions. Alberta is the province that pays the most overtime. Rather than create full-time jobs, they create part-time jobs, but extra hours are paid double time.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Do you believe this is an appropriate approach?

[Linda Silas]

No.

[François Lapointe, NDP, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Very well. I simply wanted to be clear.

That's it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

Thank you, Mr. Lapointe. Your time is up.

[Linda Silas]

We speak far longer in French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

In a manner of speaking, yes.

Ms. Leitch, go ahead.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much for taking the time to be here today. In particular, congratulations on nursing week. My great grandmother was a nurse who graduated in 1917 and worked into her 80s. So your point is exceptionally well taken with respect to nurses choosing to stay with their profession for a very long period of time.

We're here today to talk about whether or not individuals choose to stay in the workforce and what would encourage them to do so, or what might be the barriers to them participating. I recognize you have a dual problem of having young individuals in your profession who are looking for roles and older individuals staying, and that presents a bit of a challenge.

I want to ask if you could comment for me on the things that your profession is doing to encourage your older workers, the nurses that have the 20 or 30 years of experience, to mentor and therefore allow that natural transition to take place. I recognize that's one of the great challenges. We see that in my profession as well, as an orthopedic surgeon. What are those promising programs that you have that are helping that transition?

I have a second question for you. You talked about the need to adjust work hours, adjust the environment that individuals are working in who are a little bit older. What are the specifics that you think are the items we need to concentrate on, whether it's changing the physical environment or changing the work hours that would facilitate older nurses feeling they could continue to participate, even in a part-time role, in the institutions they're working in?

[Linda Silas]

A role for the federal government is bringing that flexibility to employers in all regions. Rural regions are probably the worst off in our long-term care sector. If you want to see an older workforce, go into those areas. One reason is because they are so committed to their community they simply can't leave, and that's where you see the 70-year-olds. I don't know about 80-year-olds. But it is about the mentoring. It's about valuing your experience. It's the same for any of us. If tomorrow your employer says you're done, “Too bad what you gave to the system for 30 years, you're done”, that's a shame. But if there's a way to merge between retirement and giving back to your profession or your employer, that's where it will be of benefit.

I know we are not here to discuss societal problems, but it is a reality that today's 60-year-olds are yesterday's 40-year-olds. It's not as if they all feel like they are 18 years old now. Your body makes you realize that you have to slow down in your hours of work. You still have to exercise and sleep more, so you are not that 18-year-old or 25-year-old; you are simply a lucky and healthy 60-year-old who will work longer if you take care of yourself. Taking care of yourself is making sure you have a healthy work environment. That's for everyone, and for nurses even more so, because it is heavy, it's 24/7, and you're dealing with patients.

When I work as a nurse, I don't deal with reports. I cannot say, okay, if nobody shows up for the committee, we'll close early. It's a patient lying in a bed, as you would know as a surgeon, so it's very important to look at.

So yes, it's mentoring, it's part-time jobs, and of course you have to look at people's pensions and how that's related, but that's almost an employee to employer issue, and they're very well protected in nursing.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I have another couple of questions. I don't think my time has run out as of yet.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ed Komarnicki]

No, it hasn't yet.

[Kellie Leitch, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

I come from a pediatric hospital, so we do have a tendency to have a little bit younger nurses, but your point is well taken on the overall aging demographic.

Do you have any best practices that you could highlight for us that says this is the type of environment that someone over the age of 55—or, as Mr. Mayes likes to say, over 62—would be the most conducive to working in versus someone who is younger? How would you segregate out the direction of nurses?

I know academic leadership opportunities, those mentorship opportunities, take them away from having to do heavy lifting and other things like that that we wouldn't want anyone to be doing. If we were looking at health human resources, are there some specific roles that we should be encouraging older nurses to take, just like we're trying to encourage younger people to enter into certain trades right now?