Human Resources Committee on Feb. 6th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Mr. Cuzner, you had your hand up earlier. I missed it, I believe.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

In terms of my concerns around the timing, I voiced them at the last meeting. The committee and the chair are certainly aware of that.

I agree. I thought I made the case at the time for additional time, but in light of the fact that we have witnesses today, I think we're going to have to bring this to a head. I'd like to offer some kind of compromise here anyway, if I could. I will throw this out.

There are just two things. We have witnesses coming after the deadline for putting forward amendments. Even if we could put off the clause-by-clause to the following week, if we could fill that.... Right now, the group of four witnesses is coming after the deadline, so they'll have no impact on any of the amendments. If we could put the clause-by-clause off to the following week.... I'm going to offer that. The other thing is with regard to the calling of officials. I'll do this in a different motion, but if I could, I'll throw that out to the committee anyway.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Ms. Sims.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I want to keep it brief, because I really don't want to take time away from the witnesses.

I do not buy the argument that once one person has said something, nobody else can repeat it. If that were the case, we would never have parliamentary democracy. We would get one speaker from each side, and then everybody could go home. But that's not how parliamentary democracy works. We all get elected as parliamentarians to represent our constituents. We're here representing the official opposition as well.

So out of all respect, I need to say that. I want to stress that I didn't bring this here lightly. I gave it a lot of consideration.

Out of respect for our witnesses, I don't plan to talk out the clock. That wouldn't be fair to our witnesses. But I can tell you that I have so much to say on this issue, and on the way this is being rushed through, that I could talk for a very, very long time and not repeat myself.

Let me again stress that to hear witnesses over two and a half hours, with one hour to do clause-by-clause, all within the same week, when amendments have to be in long before the witnesses have finished, really seems to me to be a little bit of a mockery of the parliamentary system, and especially of the role of the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

That's okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Okay.

I think the arguments have been made. I have no more speakers on our list, so I'll call a vote on this particular issue right now.

Those in the affirmative, who would like to approve Ms. Sims' motion—

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I'd like a recorded vote, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Clerk, we'll have a recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)

Mr. Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Chair, in the sense of compromise, though, perhaps I could put forward another motion: that the committee reschedule clause-by-clause for February 13 of the following week to allow a second hour of witnesses.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Is there anything else?

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

No. That's as simple as it gets.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Okay.

You've heard the motion as proposed by Mr. Cuzner. It's in relation to the previous motion, so it's in order.

I'll call the vote on this motion.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

A recorded vote, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

We will have another recorded vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Quickly, please, Mr. Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Just on the business at hand, I would put the motion that the committee invite officials from the Canada Industrial Relations Board to appear as witnesses to answer questions regarding the implementation and administration of Bill C-525, that we call them as officials.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I'm going to have to make a call on this, and I'm going to say that it's out of order at this point. I think it doesn't relate to today's discussion of extending the time period of our study of Bill C-525. It deals more with witness selection and witness preferences.

I'm going to say that it would require a 48-hour notice, Mr. Cuzner, to put that motion to the committee at this point in time.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Does it not mean maximizing the time, having these guys appear with the officials?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

I think it has to do more with who the committee chooses to have as witnesses versus time. I think the time is defined. I think it has to do more with the subject of who the witnesses are. I believe the committee would require....

I can be challenged on this, if you wish, but I'm going to make the decision that this has to do with witness selection, and does not relate to the current discussion of the motions on the floor.

Seeing no raised more hands, we'll now go to what we intended to be here for today.

Thank you again to the witnesses for being here.

Let's begin with your testimony, Ms. Whiteduck.

[Judy Whiteduck]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to provide the regrets of our chief executive officer, Peter Dinsdale, who's unable to join you here today. He asked that I sit in his place. He was unexpectedly called out of town and as a result I'm here, but very happy to be here.

I want to thank you for this opportunity to provide remarks and make this short presentation. I want to thank the committee for the invitation to the Assembly of First Nations on behalf of our national network of first nations aboriginal skills and employment training strategy agreement holders, also known as ASETS holders.

My name is Judy Whiteduck and I'm the director of safe, secure, and sustainable communities at the Assembly of First Nations. The AFN, as many may know already, is an organization that works to advance and facilitate the priorities of the 633 first nations communities across the country. The Assembly of First Nations works with communities, and of course communities represent citizenry on and off reserve. I'm Algonquin from Kitigan Zibi , a community located near Maniwaki, Quebec, about an hour and a half north of here. I've been working in support of first nations communities locally, regionally, and nationally for over 20 years now. I can't believe how quickly time flies by. Primarily, my work has been in the economic development realm.

I'm also joined by my colleague, Bryan Hendry, who is sitting in the gallery here. We have prepared a short statement for your committee's consideration as part of your study.

As a first note, I'd like to give you a brief overview of the first nations employment and training program network that has been established. At a glance, our technical network delivers the ASETS federal strategy on the ground, which you were considering as part of your study. Nationally, there are 58 first nations ASETS holders serving a total population of approximately 930,000 first nations status members, citizens. There are 13 ASETS holders just in the province of Ontario, as an example. And we have subagreement holders that work with every community in each of the provinces. Collectively, they serve in Ontario—again, as an example—200,000 first nations citizens in the province.

We plan to provide a geographic map that outlines the first nations ASETS network, so that you may have that in your hands, should you wish to refer to that. We also wish to bring attention to the lesser known assistance that our ASETS holders provide and, of course, those regular, standard lines of business that ASETS holders also provide on a daily basis.

The training and skills development assistance provides ranges of training, whether it be related to trades, or to complementing training which assists individuals to become qualified for work in the job market.

We'd also like to bring attention to some of the lesser known assistance provided by the network. It includes things like child care, literacy and life skills classes, upgrading specialized training customized to individuals, first aid and safety training, elements like job search, skill building, and related supports.

In addition to this, the first nations ASETS agreement holders are also building relationships with the business community at large. This network has become a critical mechanism to supporting first nations citizens in accessing the work force, and we can't emphasize enough how important this strategy is to our community. The ASETS holders, as an example, also hold the best position to both understand and serve the unique job market needs, whether it be mining, transportation, energy, forestry, tourism, or any of the other industry sectors.

However, as much as the employment and training organizations do accomplish, we need to be reminded that there are only so many ways to stretch current levels of funding before perforations begin to form, given the growing requests that are made of our network.

As many of you know, we are the youngest, fastest-growing demographic in Canada. We are also the fastest-growing working-age segment of the aboriginal population.

Since 1991, first nations citizens across Canada have counted on their local ASETS holders to respond to the needs for training, education, skills development, and employment. Since that time, the cost, given inflation, to deliver programs has impacted this network and the full breadth of capacities that it could possibly deliver. Compounding this are the requests for training and employment program supports that are on the rise given that our youth are nearing and becoming of age for entry into the workforce very quickly.

Since 1996, funding for the strategy has not changed, despite the growing population and the growing training demands. Employment parity is key and a priority, and can be better achieved with enhanced programming and investment. By doing so, it's estimated that by 2026 first nations will contribute a further $400 billion to Canada's economy, while saving at least $115 billion in costs associated with poverty.

For the past decade, the AFN has been calling for additional investments in education and skills training. In our submission for next week's federal budget, we have requested an additional $500 million per year over the next five years. The outcome we plan for with new investments is to help put in place those building blocks that will support a dynamic future for first nations peoples, and continue to contribute to the well-being of the country.

Two years ago at the 2012 Crown-First Nations Gathering, Prime Minister Harper echoed our goals during his opening speech:

... such will be the demand for labour in our future economy that we are positioned today to unlock the enormous economic potential of First Nations peoples, and to do so in a way that meets our mutual goals.

Canada's growing and vibrant economy will require a skilled and growing labour force in every region: urban, rural and remote. Aboriginal peoples are Canada’s youngest population. It is therefore in all of our interests to see aboriginal people educated, skilled and employed

Then two months ago, in his report to the Prime Minister on aboriginal participation in future energy projects, Doug Eyford, special envoy to the Prime Minister, recommended that:

Canada should target funding for Aboriginal education, pre-employment skills development, and skills training in a manner that is responsive to the needs and timelines identified in the regional strategic plans, and sufficiently flexible to address chronic barriers to employment.

Mr. Eyford pointed out that existing organizations, such as those like the ASETS network that we work with, needed additional resources in order to be included in the development and implementation of regional plans.

As you are all aware, the current five-year ASETS program ends next year on March 31, 2015. In order to prepare for ASETS' renewal, ESDC has been engaging ASETS holders for the past several months. ESDC has also invited first nations agreement holders to provide papers and feedback on the way to strengthen and improve programming.

At our Special Chiefs Assembly in Gatineau this past December, a resolution was passed calling upon ESDC to work with both first nations leadership and ASETS holders in the coming months. Specifically a national negotiation table would be established to ensure that the 2015 successor strategy receives sufficient funding and enhanced support in order to meet growing demands for training and skills development. Our own First Nation Technical Working Group on Human Resources Development held a workshop this past December on ASETS renewal in 2015. The overall and most frequent recommendation related to concern about resources to meet the growing demand, needed supports, and programming, as well as effectively engage in partnerships in industry and all levels of government. Specifically, until such time as the first nations high school graduation rates equal Canadian levels, more resources such as pre-employment essential skills training will be needed for clients who lack high school completion. As one participant stated, a high school degree is a passport to employment.

I will table the ASETS technical working group workshop summary with the committee and leave this also with the clerk.

I must also point out that a number of our ASETS agreement holders from across the country will be presenting to the HUMA committee. In fact, my colleagues from the First Nations Human Resources Development Commission of Quebec are presenting here today by video conference. They have specific issues to discuss, such as how employment insurance changes have affected seasonal workers. This is also a national issue for us. Our ASETS holders are also looking forward to committee hearings in western Canada. In the meantime I welcome questions from the committee and I look forward to the day when first nations are no longer called the labour force of the future but Canada's new working class.

With the proper investment and support by the federal government we can meet our mutual goals. We can build stronger communities and a stronger Canada. In doing so, first nations peoples will become this country's greatest asset.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you very much.

Let's go to Ms. McDonald via video conference.

[Cheryl McDonald, Director, Support Services, First Nations Human Resources Development Commission of Quebec]

Good morning. Thank you, chair and committee, for the opportunity to be a witness today.

My apologies to my colleagues. Ralph Cleary could not be here and Dave Sergerie is experiencing some technical difficulties from Val-d'Or. I will present this on their behalf.

This is my third experience as a witness with the HUMA committee. I was at two former ones on behalf of the AFN technical working group. Good morning, Judy, it is my pleasure to follow you.

Although my presentation touches on first nations in Quebec, I am also an active member of the AFN technical working group, so the experiences that we have in Quebec are equally experienced by our counterparts across Canada in first nations ASETS holders.

I represent the First Nations Human Resources Development Commission of Quebec. We are 29 first nations communities, and we also hold the urban agreement and have 33 service centres across Quebec, which is a province that canvasses the situation of first nations across Quebec with respect to urban milieux, remote rural, and on- and off-reserve realities. Our working-age population is 45,000; 35% of those are between the ages of 15 and 29. We cover an immense territory and we manage all agreements signed by the AFNQL in the area of employment and training.

So far, I've found that the general context of this renewal of the ASETS, as we heard as we head towards the second generation of ASETS, is that it is very different from past agreements. In large part, it is because of the Canada job fund that was announced in the budget of 2013 that is currently being discussed between Ottawa and the provinces. More and more funds are being kept in Ottawa, which we've also seen in recent years with the ASEP, ASTSIF, and SPF. More power is being given to employers to determine training needs for first nations. Subsequently, these changes will lead to largely diminished Canada-province labour market agreements. That will affect first nations if this is an indication of how Ottawa is planning to modify its funding agreements with aboriginal people. It would seem at least possible, based on the past five years' experience. The bottom line is, would this approach be favourable or not to first nations?

In terms of centralized funding, we have seen three things happen so far. One positive is that it has been an incentive to acquire and use some very useful business skills. We build strong businesses, business plans, and proposals; we implemented and targeted initiatives; we are getting partners to commit. Yet, I believe, we would have acquired these skills nonetheless, without the guidance of the ASETS. We were moving towards this, maybe not as quickly. We've learned to adapt very quickly to this new agreement.

As far as the more negative aspects of centralized funding go, let me just mention two. By funnelling all extra funding through targeted and proposal-based opportunities instead of injecting the funds directly into the AHRDS and ASETS, the department has greatly affected our capacity to keep up with demographics and inflation. On this note, let me just state that our personal, individual purchasing power of our organization has decreased 55% since 1999. To compensate for this, and to pursue our development, we've had to enter into numerous other agreements, which were developed, negotiated, managed, and reported on, each with its own distinct accountability. As a matter of fact, from 2011-12 to 2012-13, we were able to increase our non-ASETS funding from $2.7 million to $4.7 million. To achieve this, we had to manage ten additional agreements for a total of 22 agreements with basically the same personnel. It just goes to show that there's a cost to partnering, not only benefits.

Getting back to the second part of our initial question on the new ASETS—should more power be given to employers, or to provinces or to Canada for that matter?

I think the real question is whether any organization or agency is better equipped or better prepared than we are to deal with the complex issues and challenges that we face daily at many levels, from the front-line workers to our chiefs and authorities. If someone asks us if we're getting people into jobs, I think of the 50% of all employment and training measures that yield a positive result: about half are employed and half have returned to school. If you ask me if those numbers could be higher, I think they could be, but that would require the sustained development of internal and external capacities, a favourable economic context, and a revamped relationship between the department and first nations. I'll get back to that in my closing arguments.

If someone were to twist the question and ask us if it's worthwhile keeping the assets when about 50% of employment and training initiatives yield a negative result, I would quickly remind them that each negative result is only one extra step towards employment and that we are not Canada's aboriginal placement agency going only for the quick wins, but rather we are the driving force behind the empowerment of countless individuals within a global first nations society.

When the scrutiny becomes a little too critical, I can't help but wonder if we were to replace all our staff with the same number of federal and provincial technicians and professionals whether the results could really be better. Isn't it possible that they'd be a whole lot worse? Taking a client, finding the right training institution or employer or professional service based on a profound understanding of what it is to be first nation: we can't see Canada or the province or employers doing this on our behalf.

We are meeting with companies and giving them an accurate account of what we have to offer, what to expect, and what we expect, and then building and maintaining a relationship while respecting land claims and political agendas. We can't see anyone else doing this on our behalf. Mediating, translating, building a community workforce, collaborating with all other sectors and aboriginal organizations, promoting education as a means of empowering yourself without compromising your culture: we can't see anyone doing these things on our behalf.

What am I getting at with all of this? If the perfect conditions were in place, the department would at least match the inflation rate. It would streamline all funding through the assets, and it would implement a single comprehensive accountability system for all federal funding. If the department is set on not increasing the global funding of all assets while continuing to centralize all extra funding, at the very least it should keep those funds generic.

Sometimes three-way partnerships are dependent on the financial participation of the department, so when funds are not available, the department is preventing one of us from doing what it is expecting us to do. In the past few years this situation has existed for major files like adult education, vocational training, and essential skills. Also, in case the plan was ready to apply the Canadian grant approach to assets, the department should let aboriginal organizations continue to drive aboriginal employment and training.

Basically, we're saying that now that we've implemented the 19 intervention action plans, which forced us to reprogram our data system, deploy it in all 33 of our service points, retrain front-line workers, redeploy in all 33 of our service points, and offer support, all of which we have accomplished with all administrative and accountability requirements, we think that the successor strategy for the assets should remain close to its current structure, thus letting us invest more and more time and effort in the labour force and labour market development instead of implementing new bureaucratic processes. At the very least it would be helpful.

In closing, I would like to suggest a better future for our relationship. How far have we come? We've been doing this for 20 years. We've met every new set of requirements that was ever asked of us. We've developed the full spectrum of services, from essential skills to employment integration.

We have good working relations with other federal departments; with various provincial departments; with the other agreement holders in Quebec, who are the Cree and Inuit; with the first nations agreement holders from other provinces; and with numerous training institutions and employers. I wanted to give you one example to show that we've held our part, and now it's time for ESDC to step up to the plate and become a true partner with shared responsibility and mutual benefits. We always talk about partnership, and I really believe that first nations in Canada have to solidify this partnership before we can look at other partnerships. I think it's the foundation of the assets and the success of first nations and Canadians in general.

I would like to thank you all for allowing me to present this report. It wasn't written by me. It was written by Dave, and I had really hoped that he could have presented this himself. We are always handing over the reins to our young and upcoming technicians.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Ms. McDonald.

Now we'll go on to Madam Madahbee.

[Dawn Madahbee, Vice-Chair, National Aboriginal Economic Development Board]

Thank you very much.

Aanii. Good morning. Thank you for inviting me to present before the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

My name is Dawn Madahbee, and I'm the vice-chair of the National Aboriginal Economic Development Board. The board is pleased to know that the members of this committee are undertaking a study to better understand the opportunities for aboriginal persons in the workplace and the supports that are available to them through federal government programs.

Established in 1990, the National Aboriginal Economic Development Board was created by order in council to provide strategic policy and program advice to the federal government on aboriginal economic development. The board brings together first nations, Inuit, and Métis business and community leaders from all regions of Canada to advise the federal government on ways to increase the economic participation of aboriginal people in the Canadian economy. In recent years, the national board has reviewed aboriginal education and skills issues through its work on the Aboriginal Economic Benchmarking Report, on aboriginal participation in the natural resource economy, and on barriers to economic development on reserve.

I will first tell you about the Aboriginal Economic Benchmarking Report, which presents a picture of the aboriginal economic outcomes. I will then follow up with the board’s views on aboriginal education and skills training, including its views on the aboriginal skills and employment training strategy, or ASETS. I will then highlight the board’s recent recommendations in these areas.

Published in June 2012, the Aboriginal Economic Benchmarking Report is the first comprehensive document of its kind to assemble indicators and establish benchmarks to measure the social and economic well-being of first nations, Inuit, and Métis. The objectives of the report are first to assess the state of the aboriginal economy in Canada across a number of key indicators including employment and education, and second, to track the progress of aboriginal people in Canada against these indicators over time. I believe you've been given copies of this report.

This report finds that although aboriginal results are on the rise, there continue to be significant gaps in education, labour, and market outcomes between aboriginal and non-aboriginal people. For example, in 2011 only 62% of aboriginal people had a high school diploma; this is in comparison with 81% of non-aboriginal people. Furthermore, only 7.4% of aboriginal people had a university degree, compared with 21.4% of the non-aboriginal population.

Lower education outcomes lead to lower market and general economic outcomes. The 2011 National Household Survey indicates that all aboriginal-identity groups experience significant unemployment. The situation of first nations on reserve and of Inuit is especially dire. The unemployment rates of 25.2% for first nations on reserve and 19.5% for Inuit are three to four times higher than the unemployment rate of non-aboriginal people, which is approximately 7.5%.

For the National Aboriginal Economic Development Board, the facts just stated demonstrate that strong educational outcomes are the cornerstone upon which all successful economies are built. In the board’s view, a significant contributor to these poor outcomes is funding levels that are not keeping pace with the rapid growth of the aboriginal population, which increased by almost 20% between 2006 and 2011, or with education funding levels provided to other Canadians. In fact, in absolute terms, per capita funding for aboriginal students has actually been decreasing over the last decade.

Aboriginal people must have the skills required by employers and communities to be meaningful participants in the economy. Our board therefore recommends that education funding levels be increased immediately to a per capita level similar to or on a par with those provided to non-aboriginal Canadians. The board calls for a review of the 2% funding cap on first nations education to align future funding increases with population growth and suggests expanding education funding to include Métis and non-status Indians where gaps with levels in mainstream Canada exist.

This is not an argument for simple parity in resourcing. It is an argument for the ability to deliver meaningful education programming and to implement specific, culturally relevant aboriginal curricula developed by and with aboriginal scholars, academics, and traditional teachers.

The Government of Canada is providing skills training support for aboriginal people through a number of programs and initiatives, including through the aboriginal skills and employment training strategy, and the recently launched first nations job fund. I would like to highlight that the National Aboriginal Economic Development Board considers that ASETS is a successful program.

The delivery mechanism is locally driven by aboriginal organizations, which allows for customized and tailored interventions that can target special needs and focus on the specificity of local labour markets. The board considers the guidelines of the ASETS program to be efficient and appropriate. In fact, Chief Clarence Louie of the Osoyoos Indian Band in British Columbia—who is also the chair of our board—has decided to spend and administer his community’s training funds through the local ASETS program. This is a testament to the program’s value.

Furthermore, the poor educational outcomes of aboriginal people mean that the needs for pre-employment training in such areas as literacy, numeracy, and basic skills are not being met. This would be improved through sufficient education funding that ASETS must now deliver and that other programs focused on technical or occupational skills usually do not. Because of its success in supporting aboriginal training for employment, the National Aboriginal Economic Development Board strongly recommends the renewal of the ASETS program. The board would also like to offer a number of recommendations to improve ASETS to better fulfill the needs of aboriginal people.

One of the areas for improvement is in efficiency gains. ASETS could improve its efficiencies and lower its administrative costs by better aligning its coverage. In some regions, multiple ASETS holders are covering areas in close proximity to each other. In such cases, keeping local service points within one regional administrative office to encourage more collaboration on larger regional projects could potentially result in savings that could then be reinvested in additional training opportunities. This way you could still maintain those community service points but having a central administration to work with them and provide that collaboration in some of the areas, I think, would result in some improvements.

As for long-term funding, it is our opinion that the conditions under which ASETS holders operate would be improved if the funding were approved for longer periods of time. The current funding structure does not allow ASETS to support training for large, long-term projects. Long-term funding would allow ASETS training to better match the lifetime of natural resource projects and allow aboriginal people to fully benefit from the employment opportunities they generate. Long-term funding would enable aboriginal people to prepare for and find employment in major natural resource projects. Natural resource project life cycles are long, sometimes 25 to 50 years. Training must have both continuity and the ability to adapt to keep pace with new technologies as they evolve. For example, when you look at the Ring of Fire area in northern Ontario, a lot of the training is taking place before the development starts, but once that development starts there is going to be a need for continued training.

Early renewal is another recommendation we'd like to look at.

As the current funding for ASETS is due to end in 2015, it is important to make a decision on its renewal as soon as possible and to communicate it to all parties involved. Early renewal of the program would provide certainty for all. ASETS holders could implement their strategic plans and retain experienced and committed staff.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Ms. Madahbee, can I just ask you to wrap up very quickly? Thank you.