Human Resources Committee on Feb. 11th, 2014

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Calkins, for being here this morning.

I think it's a great honour and privilege as a member of Parliament to be able to have the opportunity to present a private member's bill based on things that you're hearing in your constituency, and to be able to present that in front of the committee in a truly democratic fashion. It sounds like my friends on the other side are not great supporters of true democracy, but it certainly looks as if you are.

Can you please state for the committee what your main concerns are about the current card check system?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you very much, colleague.

Mr. Chair, as I had wanted to get to in my opening remarks—I left myself a little bit short on time—I have had a lot of constituents come to me and voice their concerns over the intimidation, fear tactics, and pressure tactics they face.

Now, I'm not suggesting that's all one-sided, but the legislation I'm proposing puts the power, the empowerment, right where it belongs, Mr. Chair, and that's in the hands of the worker. There's nothing undemocratic about a mandatory secret ballot vote when it comes to determining whether or not somebody wants to be a member of an association or an organization.

I looked at the various options that were available to me, understanding the rights of association, the current statutory and legislative framework, and the jurisprudence we have surrounding these particular issues, and I said, “We have an optional secret ballot vote that's in place. What about a mandatory secret ballot vote?”

When I did further research, Mr. Butt, I found that in poll after poll that was conducted asking Canadians if they thought a secret ballot vote for union certification and decertification in the workplace was something they wanted, they overwhelmingly indicated, at between 80% and 90% in almost every province, support for a mandatory secret ballot vote in the workplace.

Not only that, but it's higher in Quebec than in any other province in Canada, for a mandatory secret ballot vote. And when you compare people who have never been a member of a bargaining unit with those who have been a member of a union, or are currently a member of a union, the support is even higher amongst those individuals, because they have clearly been through the process, and there is support for what I am proposing here today.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Just as a follow-up, can you explain how a mandatory secret ballot vote...?

I'm not from a union background. I've never been a member of a union. I don't know particularly how these things necessarily work. But it seems to me that a secret ballot vote, where I can go in, in the privacy of the ballot box, and vote my conscience on certifying or decertifying a union, is just basic democracy.

Can you explain how the secret ballot vote would address some of the concerns that have been raised?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

We've all heard the allegations. As I said, they've been brought forward. It's very legitimate, it's been documented in various cases before labour boards at the federal level where the certification process was flawed. We've had people voting by proxy on card checks. We've heard instances of employees who don't understand the language being presented with a paper saying, “You have to sign here to get your paycheque,” while not understanding that they're signing a card in a union certification drive.

These things can and do happen. I'm not saying they always happen, but these things can and do happen. The only way you can level the playing field and put the power where it belongs is through a mandatory secret ballot vote. The option is already there to have an optional secret ballot vote at the discretion of the labour board in the private sector component, so why don't we just make it mandatory and get a true result? For one to argue that we don't have a true result through a secret ballot process is I think just completely illogical.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Can you just quickly, Mr. Calkins, explain the difference...?

Again, how we are elected as members of Parliament has been woven into the discussion and the debate on this bill. Can you just again explain the difference between how we are elected as members of Parliament, whether we get 50% plus one of the vote or not? We obviously have many constituents who stay home, who don't vote at all.

Can you explain the difference again between how we're elected, what the goal is, and how this bill would work if passed?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

The reality is, Chair, the first past the post system dealing with multiple candidates running at the same time is a completely different question than a referendum-style question, which is a yes or no answer. If you look at the ballot for union certification, when those votes are actually held, the answer is either yes or no, and it's not unreasonable to expect that 50% plus one of the workers in a workplace should have to support the creation of a union, which then requires everybody else in that bargaining unit or that employee workplace area to be subject to the rules of that bargaining agent. So I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to do, but we all do, Mr. Butt, face a secret ballot vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

On to Mr. Cuzner from the Liberal Party, for five minutes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Calkins, good to see you. We'll get right to it; we only have five minutes.

I know in your comments you said this is about striking a balance, and I say that probably the most significant labour relations review that's been undertaken in the past 20 years is the Sims task force's Seeking a Balance. What did you draw from that in your research? What did you draw from that report as the repeating theme that came out of that report?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

There was a lot of information from various sources that I looked at, Mr. Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Did you study the Sims report?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

The Sims report, yes, it was taken into consideration along with a lot of other information that I took—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You would know from that—

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Mr. Cuzner, are you going to let me answer the question?

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

You said you didn't study the Sims report.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

That's not what I said, Mr. Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Did you study the Sims report?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I said it's been studied, along with all kinds of other information that I looked at in the creation of the draft legislation—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Chair, just for clarification, the Sims report clearly identified that consultation and consensus is the process in which labour relations should come forward. Did you speak with any labour practitioners?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

If consultation through a secret ballot vote through a general election is consulting the Canadian electorate on who they want to have as a government, Mr. Cuzner, is any indication, then certainly—

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Okay, can I get a yes or no, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Just a second. Again, I'm going to remind the witness and the questioner, through the Chair, please, that you're engaging in debate back and forth, and I'll have to cut it off if it continues that way.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Mr. Chair, if we could, was the Canadian Industrial Relations Board consulted?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

I consulted with my constituents in the formulation of my bill, Mr. Cuzner. I've been clear about that.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Okay, so not the Canadian Industrial Relations Board.

Any major unions, those that it impacts—CLC, Unifor—had they been consulted?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

They've made no effort to consult me.