Human Resources Committee on Feb. 11th, 2014

[Anthony Giles]

Where votes are held, yes.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

This has been an effective process and you think it has been fair.

[Anthony Giles]

Yes.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Now, on to Madam Sims, for five minutes.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

First of all, I want to say that I've gone through the certification process myself. As a new teacher to Canada and living in B.C., we went through the process of certification, and at that time, I can tell you, it was informed. Lots of information was given to me. As a classroom teacher I could go to sessions to learn more, there was lots provided to us so that we could read about it all, and we went to many meetings at which there were debates about the pros and cons. Sometimes when I hear of a sort of hammer over the teachers I find it disturbing, because that has not been my experience, either in the teaching profession or in my interaction with many other unions in British Columbia and across Canada.

The other thing I want to stress is that it has been quite telling that witness after witness, as well as our departmental staff, have said that nobody has said there was a problem. If it ain't broke, why are we trying to shatter something that is working? That just doesn't meet the common sense smell test; it makes no sense at all. Internationally we're losing a lot of ground, whether in our foreign policy or on human rights issues or the way we treat our aboriginal people or the way we conduct much of our other business.

My question is, to the CLC and to anybody else who wants to answer, how will ILO convention 87 be relevant to this bill, and what kind of message will we be sending to the international community with a piece of legislation that is being rammed down our throats in four short hours while the Olympics are going on and the budget is about to be dropped? This is a deliberate attempt to do it under the radar.

I turn it over to you.

[Hassan Yussuff]

I don't know what the final version of this bill might look like, but as it currently stands, from our perspective we believe it will be a violation of ILO convention 87. Obviously, members of the committee are going to consider whatever changes may come forward, and we'll see. But clearly, as we have done in the past, if we believe that the proposed changes are in violation of the ILO, we will submit a complaint to the ILO for them to arbitrate whether or not it's in violation of ILO conventions as such.

I want to emphasize again, and through my colleagues on the other side.... Colin, I think, raised a very important point. Private members have rights; they're members of Parliament, and we respect their responsibility. But I think that's not in play here.

The Canada Labour Code to a large extent governs the economy, and I think we all take great care, as I do with my colleagues on the employer side, to work at our relationship. It's like a good marriage: the fact that all the right things are there doesn't mean it's always perfect; you have to work at it. We work at it tremendously to ensure that we can solve problems and deal with the issues of how workplaces are productive, and more importantly how we conduct our relationship.

We have a good system, and I think it's really unfortunate that we bring so much discussion around the code, as though the code is inadequate and is not providing an opportunity for the parties to do what is necessary to solve problems. We do solve a lot of problems—a fact, by the way, that never comes before this committee and that nobody talks about. Both my friend and I would attest to the fact that we have a code that works.

What you're doing is imposing imbalances. One side is going to feel aggrieved, and at some point we'll swing the pendulum back the other way. I don't think that's an opportunity for a system that has been built on continuity. The employers know what to expect from the code; they understand how the relationship governs them. We don't have surprises with each other, and now we're providing surprises. I think fundamentally it's going to affect the relationship, which is so delicate in the workplace, and it's unnecessary.

If somebody could demonstrate to us that it's a really legitimate issue that needs fixing, by all means I'd be here to tell you what the solutions might be. I don't think this is a problem that's looking to be fixed; I think this is a bill that's creating a problem, that is going to create imbalances among our relationships. That is unfortunate and unnecessary.

I think the committee should take a lot of great care as to its ultimate conclusion. I understand that the government has a majority and can do what it wants, but fundamentally this is more about the economy and the relationship that exists with us, and 99% of the time we solve our problems. For the 1% of the time that we can't solve a problem, there's a mechanism for dealing with it, and the government plays an important role through the department to try to help us solve those problems.

I want to re-emphasize that. Fundamentally, whatever you do, recognize what we try to do on a day-to-day basis, which is to find a way to solve our problems without having to score points with each other. I think this bill does score points against one side, and it's not necessary, because we built a code that provides us the opportunity to resolve issues in a way that does not aggrieve or prejudice the other side.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you, Mr. Yussuff.

That brings our committee time to an end. I want to thank the witnesses for coming and sharing their views with us today. It is very important that we hear your views, and we appreciate you taking the time to do that.

Members, I will just mention before you leave the room that amendments on this bill must be submitted by the end of today. Any amendments you are proposing for this bill must be submitted to the clerk by the end of today

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I have a question about the amendments.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Go ahead on a question about the amendments.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

What time do they have to be in?

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

The have to be in by 5 p.m.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

So that's before we've heard the witnesses. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

The meeting is adjourned.