Evidence of meeting #22 for Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was apprentices.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Okay. Thank you.
You have looked at some of the special benefits that were mentioned in respect to the program changes that have been made. We've changed the rules, I believe. We were looking at the “otherwise available to work” requirements—for parental benefits, at least—as well, and now at the compassionate care and parents of critically ill children benefits.
Can you comment on the intent of the “otherwise available to work”clause?
9:40 a.m.
Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development
Essentially, the “otherwise available for work” clause was a mechanism in the past that prevented claimants who were on these essentially caregiving benefits from moving to sickness. If you think of regular benefits, you have to assert that you would otherwise be available for work if you weren't sick, and so benefits flow for sickness. The structure of the legislation in the past, before the Helping Families in Need Act, was that the “otherwise available for work” test would deny people the availability to switch to sickness, if they were on parental or compassionate care, or now on the new parents of critically ill children benefit.
The change that was brought to the act in 2012-13 followed the logic that caring for an ill family member, an ill child, or a newborn baby is essentially work and that you are otherwise available for work, and that is by providing care to a family member.
You can switch to sickness and then you can switch back afterwards to the benefits that are intended to support caring for a family member.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Therefore the change in the benefit program is to supply that continuity. Is that correct?
9:40 a.m.
Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development
That's exactly right.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
9:40 a.m.
Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development
That's the legislative mechanism to make it flow.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
How many Canadians would access that program? I heard some numbers earlier in your presentation. Just as I came in, there were some numbers mentioned; perhaps they weren't yours. But for the compassionate care benefits, just how many people would...?
9:40 a.m.
Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development
Compassionate care benefits are drawn, on average, by 6,000 Canadians. You can find greater detail on these numbers in the monitoring and assessment report that Minister Kenney just tabled.
Parents of critically ill children is a new benefit. We don't have a full year of reports yet, but it is essentially the same number of people that we're tracking, so it's 6,000 Canadians there as well.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Are there complementary programs in the provinces?
What would the duration of claims be when people have made those claims?
9:40 a.m.
Director General, Employment Insurance Policy, Department of Employment and Social Development
On the provincial side, that's more of a labour code issue. The Canada Labour Code touches federally regulated industries. Provinces often make related changes to their labour codes to allow that ability to leave work and benefit from the support that's provided through EI.
My colleague from the labour program would be better able to speak about which provinces do what.
9:40 a.m.
Assistant Director, Strategic Policy, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
In Canada, labour legislation comes under provincial and federal jurisdiction. Major institutions such as banks and the transportation sector are federally regulated. They account for about 6% of Canada's employees.
All the provinces have labour standards aimed at protecting Canadian employees who take certain types of leave, such as compassionate leave for a gravely ill parent and leave for a missing or murdered child.
The Canada Labour Code has been amended. This is a common practice. When the Employment Insurance Act is amended, the Canada Labour Code is as well in order to ensure that workers' jobs are protected while they are receiving employment insurance benefits.
Regarding whether the provinces will amend their legislation or not, that is their jurisdiction. It is up to them to decide what they want to do with their labour legislation.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Phil McColeman
That's the end of that round. We're right on the appointed time for switching over.
I'll just comment quickly. About 25 years ago, I spent two years on the floor of a pediatric oncology ward with my son. One of the things that struck me was that with many of the parents who were there, and there were about 16 patients, one of the parents typically had to leave their job because they wanted to care for and be with their child.
I can't help but reflect today on the fact that we've come a long way. It's not that there were't supports for those people. There were a lot of agencies that came to the rescue to help those who were economically challenged, which shows the strength of communities.
If I might comment on a very personal level, I'm really thankful for these kinds of changes that we're making to enable people....
We thank you for coming here today and explaining it to us, and using your expertise in your roles in government to make these things happen for Canadians.
Thank you.
We'll take a short recess while we change the panels.
9:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Phil McColeman
Let's get moving along with the second hour.
For committee members, and also for presenters, I've been given notice that there could possibly be a vote. We may be interrupted, at which time we would end the session.
Welcome to the second hour of our committee study of Bill C-31.
Joining us now, from the National Association of Career Colleges, is chief operating officer, Mr. Serge Buy. With Mr. Buy is James Loder, who is the chair. We welcome you back, Mr. Buy. I believe you were here last meeting as well, on another matter.
Joining us from the Canadian Home Builders' Association, we have the chief executive officer, Mr. Kevin Lee; and Mr. Jack Mantyla, the national coordinator of education and training.
We'll turn it over to you now, if you'd like to go first Mr. Lee. Then we'll go to Mr. Buy afterwards. You have 10 minutes.
9:50 a.m.
Kevin Lee Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
Great. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My name is Kevin Lee. I'm the CEO of the Canadian Home Builders' Association, and with me is Jack Mantyla, our national coordinator on education and training.
Thank you for inviting us here today. I want to focus my remarks on the Canada apprentice loan.
In 2012, the residential construction and renovation industry supported 845,000 jobs nationwide and generated $45 billion in wages for Canadians, for total economic activity attributed to our sector at $120 billion. I provide these numbers to illustrate the importance of residential construction in generating jobs and wages here in Canada. Canada's housing market has a strong demand for skilled tradespeople, a demand that is currently not being met, and this problem is going to be exacerbated in the future.
Statistic Canada's unemployment to job vacancies ratio for the construction sector, published in March, show that the number of job vacancies has been trending upwards over the past few years. This is a direct function of skilled workers retiring from the sector, and an insufficient supply of workers coming to fill these positions.
We're currently working with BuildForce Canada to finalize a residential construction industry labour market information report, but I can tell you that the preliminary results are showing that between now and 2023, over 100,000 vacancies will need to be filled in the residential construction industry alone.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Phil McColeman
Mr. Lee, could I ask you to slow down a bit. The translation is—
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
Sure.
I only have five minutes, right?
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
Good. Then I can go at half speed.
9:55 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Home Builders' Association
Federal support for apprentices has been generous with the $1.4 billion allocated between 2007 and 2012 in programs like the apprenticeship job creation tax credit, the apprenticeship incentive grant, and the apprenticeship completion grant. To this we are pleased to see being added the Canada apprentice loan. However, since the existing programs are being restricted to Red Seal trades only, and this appears to be the plan again for the Canada apprentice loan, many young people wanting a career in the residential construction industry are not eligible for these supports.
Red Seal remains an important part of the residential construction industry, and we are pleased to see continued support for it. However, in addition to this, the profile of jobs in our industry has been changing a lot over recent decades. For example, the traditional carpenter as recognized under Red Seal is less and less a reality in today's residential construction industry. Instead, what we have a need for is specialty subtrades such as framers. These and many other provincially recognized trades—people who are really building houses these days—must also be recognized under federal funding and programs in addition to the Red Seal trades.
We at CHBA have compiled a list of 41 provincially designated trades that are employed in the residential construction industry. Of these, 23 are Red Seal, but 18 are apprenticeable trades that are not recognized by Red Seal. Accordingly, there's a great number of skilled workers in our industry—an industry that's a huge economic activity generator—who remain ineligible at this time.
To be clear, this isn't an ask for additional funding, nor would it take away funding from other trades. Of the $1.4 billion that I mentioned earlier, over $558 million was left unspent. So this is available funding that could be going to other apprenticeable trades, and with nearly half of our apprenticeable trades in the residential construction industry not Red Seal, that significant amount of federal support intended to help apprentices isn't currently reaching a very important part of the market.
The net consequences of this disconnect are the following: an untapped opportunity to create good-paying jobs that our economy is demanding; elevated housing costs to consumers and families due to a shortage of skilled tradespeople; and young people not getting the skills training they need to meaningfully enter the job market. This equates to untapped economic growth, untapped job creation potential, untapped wealth creation, and frankly, untapped additional revenue for governments.
The opportunity is here now to get this one right and expand the list of eligible trades for the Canada apprentice loan to include all provincially designated trades. Indeed, we would ask that all federal funding aimed at apprentices be accessible to all provincially designated trades.
We know the government has a great desire, which we support, for labour mobility. We saw this was made evident in the Agreement on Internal Trade. This doesn't require Red Seal. It instead requires provinces to recognize each other's regulated trades, which is very good. This trend in federal programming needs to continue and support not just Red Seal but also these other groups to be consistent with other actions taken by the government.
Broadening the eligibility of federal support for apprenticeable trades beyond Red Seal will be one of the most effective means, we feel, to encourage young people to take up skilled trades and reduce labour shortages. It's a small but significant change that will put federal support for skills in line with contemporary profiles of today's trades, while meeting the needs and demands of our companies. We feel that this is a relatively simple opportunity and simple solution, with great opportunity to help Canadians.
Thank you.
10 a.m.
Serge Buy Chief Operating Officer, National Association of Career Colleges
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for having me again. I was here on Tuesday.
I just want to confirm the rumour that twice in a week, five times in a month, it's like a frequent flyer miles program. After five times I get to sit on the other side.
10 a.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
10 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, National Association of Career Colleges
I'm pleased to be here to speak on the subject of Bill C-31, the budget implementation act. I'm pleased to be joined, thanks to the fact that we have our conference here in Ottawa this week, by the chair of our board, Mr. James Loder. We will talk about apprenticeship more specifically.
A number of positive measures were taken by the government which, in our view, will mean that more Canadians will access much needed support to gain meaningful employment through this budget. Rather than going through each of them, I would like to spend a bit of time to highlight some of the measures we believe will have a real and direct impact on people.
The Canada apprenticeship loan is a measure that will provide apprentices much needed support to help them complete their training. When I was here on Tuesday last week, I mentioned the fact that we needed to provide the tools needed for people to complete their training. This is certainly one of them, and we thank the government for doing this. We see this as an important measure that could help increase the number of apprentices and help some of them to complete the apprenticeships.
The measures announced last week by the Prime Minister to support youth employment in high demand fields by paying for real-life experience will also enable young people to get their foot in the door and finally be able to answer the question: do you have any experience? Well, yes, this program will allow them to have the experience that they need.
We also applaud, and really do applaud, the measures designed to strengthen on-reserve education. Our members have had several successes with those types of projects and we think they should be expanded. When one visits the education and training for aboriginal people section of the program, however, they notice a number of programs designed to help first nations and Inuit students to enter university, legal programs, etc., all designed to take them away from the reservations for a long period of time. Completion rates are low. Programs delivered on reserve have a much higher success rate.
The example I quoted on Tuesday, which, by the way, was in the example from the school led by the chair of our board, showed the difference between an on-reserve and off-reserve program. Off-reserve completion rates were 7%; on-reserve rates were 76%—a big difference, a very big difference. We would hope that the government would consider, even if only as a pilot project, to support career colleges' efforts to develop on-reserve training programs, as several projects across the country exist, but await some support.
One measure that we struggle to understand why it is not included in the budget is the provision of grants to students enrolled in programs of less than 60 weeks. With the risk of sounding like a broken record—and I will sound like a broken record—it is hard to understand why we would penalize students who want to obtain meaningful employment faster just because their programs are less than 60 weeks. The government is looking at getting people back to work faster, and it is looking at helping employers fill vacant jobs, all of this to improve our economy. We're doing our part, but we can certainly do more with a government that's willing to partner with us. This government has done quite a bit, and we're willing to continue working with it.
The chair will continue.
10 a.m.
James Loder Chair, National Association of Career Colleges
Thank you for the opportunity.
As Serge mentioned, I'm the chair of the national association, but I'm also the senior director with Academy Canada. We're a Newfoundland-based career college that has been open since 1984. We deliver 35 programs and train approximately 2,000 students per year, half of whom are trained in Red Seal apprenticeship training programs. I'm happy to be here today to offer a real world example.
My office is located about 10 feet from a student lounge of a skilled trades college. I'm not sure how much more real world you can get than hearing what students say while they're on their breaks from classes. I'd like to share with you some of their thoughts.
One of the challenges that every student faces, whether in an apprenticeship program, a different college program, or a university program, is obviously financing and paying for their education. Then there's the worry and fear about what happens beyond that in terms of repaying that debt. When word came of the apprenticeship loan program, it spread very quickly through the college, and students were very excited about the idea because, as one of the witnesses said earlier, it is perceived as being ready to fill a gap, one that is very real and very much a deterrent to students not just starting a program but in many cases finishing the program.
I would compliment the committee and government on that program and encourage them to continue with similar types of programs. I also encourage them to follow the suit of the Newfoundland government. As many of you are probably aware, the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador recently announced that they were going to be converting the entire loan portion of the Newfoundland student loan to grant. I know that and I have a true appreciation.
I don't say those words lightly when I encourage you to follow suit. This is without question the ultimate solution to the student debt issue and to accessibility to post-secondary training, whether it's in the skilled trades or otherwise. If a province with some of the unique economic challenges of Newfoundland and Labrador can do this, I feel that there is room for looking at it in a broader scope across the country.
I'd like to move away from that just for a very quick moment and speak of some successes that we've had with the aboriginal community, specifically through my school, and I will unashamedly speak of it.
We have two fairly significant aboriginal communities in Labrador, Natuashish and Sheshatshiu. Some of you will be familiar with these. They are communities that have historically had significant challenges, with a wide range of social and economic issues.
It's led by a number of very forward-thinking individuals who see that the future solution is in education. They saw circumstances in which students in the past were leaving the community to go to study in off-community schools. The success rates—including at my school, by the way—were abysmal: fewer than 10% of the students who were starting were completing.