Human Resources Committee on June 10th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you for that.

Now we'll move on to Mr. Cuzner for five minutes.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

I'd like to get two questions in, and I'd like to carry on from where Mr. Maguire was coming from, because I don't know if I'm any clearer.

Your recommendation is that there be an aboriginal component in each provincial LMDA. I thought that was already there. Are you looking at a specific percentage of the LMDA to be identified for aboriginal?

But more so, you're specifically asking that Métis be identified in that. So it's more the fact that Métis should be identified with first nations. Is that sort of where you are with it?

[Guido Contreras]

Sure, I'll clarify that.

The LMAs contain a clause that calls on the joint committee, federal and provincial officials, to work together and integrate their respective programs with the aboriginal communities. The argument that we made and that came from this particular research is that even though the clause is there, it was never enacted. That's number one.

Number two, the clause itself does not contain any mediation for the provinces, territories, and federal government to incorporate or include aboriginal representatives in that particular committee or in that particular discussion. So that is the number one part of this.

The second part of it is that whenever provinces choose to be involved in aboriginal programmings—and the LMDAs and the LMAs all contain aboriginal language in there. So we don't work at counter-purposes to each other, it would be appropriate for the provinces to invite and consult with the aboriginal communities, and to the extent that is possible, deliver services to the communities through the existing agents we have in place. For the past 16, 17, 18 years the aboriginal community has been painstakingly trying to develop a labour market service delivery structure that has hundreds of delivery points across the west, Ontario to the west.

It's counterintuitive that the provinces are not using this structure and consulting with aboriginal communities to the extent that they should.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you.

Ms. Drolet, I appreciate your concern around the sharing of the information. I think it was one of the last or second-last studies we did. It's like Groundhog Day: we continue to do a very similar study all the way through here.

Testimony that was pretty surprising was when the Canadian Federation of Medical Students, the CMA, and the Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada all have sort of different groups of numbers as to the need to develop more seats in medical institutions, in universities across the country. It's sort of crazy that we're not getting that exchange of information.

But you had mentioned the professional organizations and having a little more skin in the game. You've seen some, like the Canadian Dental Association, are doing a good job of recognition of foreign credentials. Do you see that those professional organizations should have more skin in the game too? Are there many of those that just aren't getting it done as well?

[Dr. Julie Drolet]

What we've found in the literature was that for many newcomers and immigrants, there continue to be concerns about having their credentials and work experience recognized in Canada.

We're starting to see some work happening in those areas with the provincial regulators. In terms of our findings from the literature review, that continues to be an area where there's substantial work under way.

Again, there are many different facets to understanding these issues and there is a need to try to bring these various perspectives together. I think it does very much vary by different fields and what they look like. It then has different associations that are accredited sometimes at a provincial level. As a social worker, that's how it happens. There are different processes involved around who's required to be accredited or not in that sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Mr. Armstrong.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Contreras, you talked a lot about access to the programs in different provinces, particularly out west. Are there provinces out west that have some best practices that you've experienced working with the Métis population? Are there some provinces that do a better job using the LMDA funds to support first nations and Métis access to the programs?

[Guido Contreras]

I think so. What we found is that in British Columbia, for example, there is a very close working relationship between the Métis nation of British Columbia and provincial officials. As a result of that, they're working on expanding the K-12 program and targeting a lot of the best practices to the K to 12 level, and I think that is a best practice.

In Ontario, for example, the provincial government entered into a relationship with the Métis nation of Ontario. The officials are very proud of that relationship. It led to the development of a Métis studies chair at the University of Ottawa, and I think those are very good practices.

In terms of access to the labour market, there is a really good case in Saskatchewan where the GDI, Gabriel Dumont Institute, has been working very closely with the provincial government. As a result of that, they have developed a number of synchronicities, a number of programs. They're targeting Métis people, or aboriginal people in general, with very good results. So there are some best practices in the province.

My argument is that it's uneven. Someone mentioned earlier that provinces tend to work in silos and so best practices are not necessarily copied and transferred from one jurisdiction to the next one.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

We talked about when devolution took place in 1996. We moved forward with negotiations with the provinces, completing them as recently as in the last couple of years. There were two tracks. One track, of course, was the LMDAs to the provinces, and then we had the ASETS programs, and others.

Do you find that some provinces are more restrictive in trying to use LMDA funds to fund first nations programs or Métis programs, based on the fact there's another stream coming from the federal government? Would that be your opinion?

[Guido Contreras]

By and large, the provinces do take seriously the need to provide services to all of their citizens. In terms of policy development, some provinces are doing much better.

I note for instance that the Alberta government, since 2000 when they produced a fairly good document called “Strengthening Relationships”, has tried to create an aboriginal workforce strategy. They have gone through many different consultative stages and developmental stages, and then nothing has taken place since. Now that's 12, 14 years back. It's way too long for anyone to implement a labour market program.

That is not to say Alberta is not doing what they need to do to actually provide services. I'm saying that in relation to targeting these particular services through a very structured policy drive, it hasn't happened.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

I'm going to switch gears here and talk a little bit more about what Ms. Sims is discussing in regard to expanded eligibility and access to the program.

We have heard from some employers that they would like to see it expanded to capture a greater number of workers. The problem that we need to discuss then is that since the LMDAs are funded solely from premiums from employers and employees, can you square the circle there?

Should we expand the programs using funds that many of the clients won't have contributed to? Do you have any comments on that?

[Guido Contreras]

Are you asking me?

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Either of you two.

[Dr. Julie Drolet]

I don't think I'll comment on that. It's not my area.

[Guido Contreras]

Everyone should have ample access to all Canadian programs.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

We should review the funding formula and look at access to try to capture more people, and take a look at that.

[Guido Contreras]

Absolutely.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

I wanted to get some support on that.

One of the recommendations is that the provinces need to put some skin in the game. Can you expand on that? What do you mean when you talk about provinces putting some skin in the game, Mr. Contreras?

[Guido Contreras]

Sure. The data hasn't been properly set up. There are tonnes of problems with the provincial data.

I think if money is being directed to aboriginal communities, the provinces should be asked to report on how they are investing it in aboriginal programs, not only in terms of the investment but also of their consultative stages and how they are seeking to integrate provincial programs with aboriginal labour market programs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Phil McColeman]

Thank you.

Monsieur Brahmi.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Drolet.

I would like to know whether, as part of your studies, you focused specifically on the aspect of the language clauses that we talked about earlier with the previous witnesses, that is, as concerns francophone minorities in Canada.

Did you come upon anything in that respect in your research?

[Julie Drolet]

As part of this study, in which we conducted a literature review, we did not consider this aspect.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

All right.

So I imagine that when you study the obstacles that immigrants face, language emerges as one of the obstacles to their labour market integration.

That means that you study the language aspect in general, but not the minority or majority aspect. Is that the case?

[Julie Drolet]

Yes, exactly.

[Tarik Brahmi, NDP, Saint-Jean, QC]

All right, perfect.

Did you study another aspect, namely, accountability?

I know that you studied the fact that there are a great many programs and agreements. Have you determined whether the federal government is capable of assessing each of the different programs, given that it deals with different provinces that use different methods?

What did you find out?