Human Resources Committee on Dec. 5th, 2013

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you. Other people might be asking you that question, and we'll give you an opportunity to answer at that time.

We'll move to Monsieur Boulerice.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I thank the witnesses for joining us this afternoon.

Just like my colleague earlier, I would like to take a few seconds to go over Canada’s record with respect to First Nations. It is not a good record.

Let me point out a few things. Life expectancy for First Nations is six years shorter than the average life expectancy for Canadians. The suicide rate for young Aboriginal people is five times the national average. Infant mortality for Aboriginal people is almost twice as high as for Canadians as a whole. Most Aboriginal people live below or on the poverty line. The unemployment rate for Aboriginal people is double the Canadian rate. On reserves, the rate can be as high as 30%. Finally, academic failure rates are higher in all their communities.

I think you are doing a good job and you are working hard, but a lot of things still need to be done. We still have a long way to go.

I have some numbers here from the 2012 Employment Insurance Monitoring and Assessment Report. The Aboriginal Skills and Employment Training Strategy (ASETS) provided services to 49,000 clients, as you call them. I would call them people or workers instead. Among those people, 12,000 people found a job and 6,000 others decided to go back to school thanks to your work. So, of the 49,000 people that received services or assistance, only 18,000 had results, meaning that they got a job or went back to school. The success rate is 37%. If we subtract those who went back to school, because we don’t know what the outcome will be, and we consider only those who found a job, the success rate is 24%.

In your view, is that satisfactory? Is that good? Does that compare well with what is being done elsewhere?

[James Sutherland]

We would really like the success rate to be a little higher.

We work hard at getting there. The programs are designed to give that control to the community so they can take advantage of the opportunities. That is why we approach things the way we do.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

What steps will you take to increase the success rate?

[James Sutherland]

With respect to some of the key things we have done, initially we devolved that control over deciding where the priorities lie to the communities themselves. In 2010 we added an in demand aspect to the programming whereby the organizations were supposed to add an analysis of what was available in their regions so that people were not being trained just on what they might want regardless of what was available.A s part of the counselling, they would say that maybe the person doesn't want to be a miner, but there are lots of secondary industries that he or she might be able to take advantage of. It's not training everybody as a hairdresser in a community of 100 people.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

No, or everyone would have a great haircut.

Could you tell me how many First Nations members are unemployed in Canada? We often talk about percentages, but do you have a number?

[James Sutherland]

I do not have that. I would have to go back and ask if it's available. Given that for some of the programming the identification is voluntary, the number I would have would be those who self-identify in the collection process.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I like to be able to compare things. If, in any given year, you serve, help or train 49,000 people, it would help to know how many people are unemployed. I don’t know if the number is valid or not, because I don’t know what the total pool is.

You are talking about demand-driven skills development. My understanding is that the demand comes from private companies and the labour market.

Do you sometimes train people based on the demand or needs of communities? For instance, a community might need someone to work with young people to fight crime. Perhaps no companies are looking for someone to work with young people, but that need is still part of the demand.

[James Sutherland]

In our engagement sessions with the groups over the last several months, that has been a key point: what is actually meant by in demand. However, we do find, particularly with first nations in remote areas, that one of the largest employers is the first nation itself or the community, which is the end goal of our programming.

Quite often, the first priorities are with the community, followed up by the agreements they reach with the companies and businesses that are nearby.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you. You're right on the dot, just as it turned to five. That's good timing.

Our next speaker is Monsieur Daniel.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here. I appreciate that.

I'm going to ask some basic questions, because I don't understand the aboriginal community. For example, what is the population of the aboriginal people in Canada?

[Allan Clarke]

Based on census information that's self-identification, approximately 1.2 million to 1.3 million people self-identify as aboriginal. Within that, you've got first nations, Inuit, and Métis. There are about 350,000 first nations on reserve, and there are probably an equal number off reserve. Again, this is a ballpark figure. There are about 400,000 people who self-identify as Métis. There are probably 130,000 or maybe less who self-identify as Inuit.

Roughly speaking, it's something like that.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Yes.

[Allan Clarke]

We can provide those data.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Sure, that would be great.

[Allan Clarke]

There's another thing I could offer as well. I could also perhaps get this to the clerk. This is the benchmark report from the National Aboriginal Economic Development Board, which—

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

That would be excellent, thank you.

[Allan Clarke]

—talks about economic development outcomes and indicators. We could make sure there are copies available for everyone.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

That would be wonderful. Thank you very much.

I've worked with various other indigenous groups around the world, and one of the things that's interesting for me is that they really don't have a western attitude in the sense that they don't see a job as being the be-all and end-all, as we do. I'm wondering if the aboriginal people think in the same way.

In other words, with some of these wonderful statistics of how many people get jobs, how long do they keep the jobs for? Do they stay in that job for the rest of their lives or their career, or do they just stay there for a few years until they have sufficient money to get a nice piece of property and then live comfortably off that? It's more an attitude thing rather than anything quantitative.

[James Sutherland]

I don't think it would be appropriate for us to speak about the attitudes of a particular population. From an ESDC training people perspective, everyone who comes through our door is looking for a job, right? They're trying to get employment.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay.

[James Sutherland]

In many instances, it's more a matter of there being no employment, or the nature of the employment might be transitory. It might be in an industry that has busts or booms.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Let's follow through on that. You've shown some 46,000 to 48,000 people having jobs through the process. How long have they held those jobs for?

[James Sutherland]

I'm not sure that we collect the information. We look at it for a duration of time—

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay.