Human Resources Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Mr. Jeneroux, you have the floor.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I want to take this rare opportunity to say that Mr. Van Bynen and I are in complete agreement. I want to get that on the record. I agree that we have had a lot of that crossover, and I appreciate my friend, Mr. Van Bynen, for bringing that up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Jeneroux.

Ms. Zarrillo, you have the floor.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I want to comment on Madame Chabot's comments. I would really like us to be unanimous on working on these labour shortage issues. I want to express to Madame Chabot that we will be respecting jurisdictions within our health care focus. This is really about the idea of how to get more people into this care economy, and around immigration.

This is a huge point of contact, especially for care workers and care aides. This is really an all-expansive look at labour shortages. With a lead on the care economy—and we all know a tsunami of boomers at age 65 is coming—we want to make sure we can handle another crisis. I take your point. We will respect jurisdiction, but I hope we can come to a point where we can start looking at these labour shortages and be prepared to take care of people in the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

Madame Ferrada, you have the floor.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Now it's my turn to support the statements in the motion, and especially in the amendment. It is saying that we need a general idea of what is happening in terms of the current labour shortage in the sector, while emphasizing issues pertaining to the economy and to health. In the context of the pandemic, this seems perfectly appropriate to me.

Then, as Ms. Zarrillo said, we must do so while respecting provincial jurisdiction, of course. The government must demonstrate its intention to be involved and to support the health care system all across the country. People need a health care system that meets not only their needs but also their expectations. This is important for the health of Canadians.

So I am very much in favour of the amendment that my colleague has introduced.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Madame Chabot, speaking to the amendment.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The motion specifies working conditions. I am not surprised that a motion like this has been introduced. But it is very centralist, given Quebec's jurisdiction, so I am really disappointed. I am not opposed to our studying the issue of the labour shortage, which has a major impact on the Canadian economy and which is well documented. Actually, all the motions that have been introduced deal with that issue. The Conservative motion was much more general and the Liberal motion dealt with the labour shortage in the agri-food sector. Ours, however, had the advantage of being broader in scope, allowing us to view the situation in its entirety.

The motion that we are debating focuses on the labour shortage in health care, but the roles can vary from one province to another. In British Columbia, the role of a personal support worker in a health care team and in the way services are organized is certainly not the same role as in Quebec. In Quebec, we have professional bodies. A number of issues affect health care, such as training. The fact remains that health care is in provincial jurisdiction.

I am not opposed to our studying the labour shortage as an issue. But I am not sure whether committee members realize that we are focusing on a sector that is completely provincial. Working conditions in daycare services, for example, come under a program that has existed in Quebec for 25 years. We have ratios for preschoolers, and the Department of Families is responsible for them. We have specific training and we have measures to address the labour shortage. It's all documented and managed by provincial public finances.

We do not need to do a major study if we want to help the care economy. We just all need to be convinced that, to help the provinces, the feds should pay their fair share of health care costs.

Economic immigration to Quebec is also in provincial jurisdiction. The temporary foreign worker program affects the care economy much less than the economy in general.

I feel that we have broad consensus on the labour shortage, because it has an impact on the Canadian economy. However, I don't understand why we want to focus on the care economy, which is the exclusive responsibility of the provinces.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Before we move on, I would remind committee members that we are speaking to the amendment.

I will recognize Madam Kusie next, who will be followed by Madam Zarrillo.

Madam Kusie, you have the floor on the amendment

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Again, we are open to the amendment as presented, but I know my colleague, Ms. Chabot, is always interested as to the differentiation between the federal and provincial jurisdictions. I certainly understand that concern and her input there.

I just want to indicate that our concern remains that this study not be too narrow. As a result of having the six meetings, we've begun to broaden it with the amendment on discussing the labour shortages in the Canadian workforce at the first meeting of the study, but I just want to have it known that I'll make an amendment to the main motion once this amendment is dealt with, to follow through on our intent of having the possibility of a broader study.

Certainly, while the care economy is incredibly important and crucial, as we've seen throughout this, the labour force jobs report, which is due out again tomorrow, has shown historic numbers within other sectors, including retail, hospitality and manufacturing. I think we're on the right path here with this amendment in terms of extending it to six meetings from five. The impact of labour shortages, that last part of the amendment, and inserting the words “the Canadian workforce in the first meeting”, that's just to say that the direction we're moving in is to make it broader.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Kusie.

Madam Zarrillo, you have the floor on the amendment.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I wanted to say I am open to the amendment and removing “the investment” and making it “working conditions”. I'm looking forward to hearing the subamendments that will come from Madam Kusie.

I wanted to address Madam Chabot. I am also open to amendments, if there are restrictions she would like to narrow in on as far as jurisdictions are concerned.

I wanted to share that it is difficult to talk about women's issues. I'm a female politician, a woman politician, and it's awkward sometimes to talk about women's issues. The care economy is disproportionately a women's issue, and I needed to be elevating the conversation around how much women have carried the burden of care during this pandemic. I also wanted to share that I was fortunate enough, I feel, and that I'm sitting in this chair today because of the $5 daycare in Quebec. I was one of the first parents to be able to take advantage of that program in 1998, and I was able to go back to school. I feel strongly that it's a wonderful program. Two of my kids benefited and I benefited.

Lastly, I want to say my constituents are asking me for some accountability around transfers that are coming from the federal government, so I'm always open to exploring how we can get more people into these professions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Madam Zarrillo.

Seeing no further interventions on the amendment, I would ask the mover of the amendment to repeat the amendment, and then we'll move to a vote on the amendment.

Mr. Collins.

[Chad Collins, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

It's as follows: “That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of the labour shortages and workers' conditions within the care economy, including healthcare workers, personal support workers and childcare workers who have been on the front lines of COVID-19, and examine how the government, in collaboration with the provinces and territories, could improve working conditions in the care economy; that the committee proceed to an overview of the impact of labour shortages in the Canadian workforce in the first meeting of the study; that the committee invite the Minister of Employment, Workforce Development and Disability Inclusion, experts, and departmental officials to testify; that the committee hold at least six meetings; and that the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

The amendment has been moved and you've heard it. We will have a recorded vote on the amendment.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 10; nays 1)

I believe Madam Kusie has the floor.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Building on the amended motion, as I mentioned, our greatest concern is that we not limit ourselves in the evaluation of the labour shortage, which, I believe, is the second-greatest economic crisis facing our country at this time. It is second only to inflation, and I believe the labour shortage feeds into inflation in terms of allowing fewer goods to go to market as a result of not having processors and producers, etc.

In keeping with the spirit of the amendment by Mr. Collins, which was, I believe, to expand the scope of the study, I would like to build on that spirit and amend the original motion to read, “That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of the labour shortages and workers' conditions within the entirety of the Canadian economy, including but not limited to....”

It's really just to expand the scope. I think it's wonderful that Madam Zarrillo feels such passion for this segment of the labour force, and I agree with her on the impact that it has felt, but I believe that as we as a nation look forward at rebuilding our economy, we must also consider the other sectors that have been significantly impacted by the labour shortage, a situation that is, as I said, greatly influencing the lives of Canadians, their businesses and the goods available, including retail, hospitality and manufacturing.

I'm hoping it will be the will of the committee to expand the intention of the study so there is an opportunity to examine all significant facets of the economy and significant sectors that have been affected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

To be clear, this is an amendment to the main motion.

Madam Zarrillo, go ahead on the amendment currently on the floor.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

I thank Madam Kusie for her amendment.

Actually, we might find that there are many similar barriers. We might find that if we expand to look at some other areas, we uncover some other problems.

I am open to the amendment. I'm wondering how we allocate topics for days in meetings, but uncovering barriers for all is an interesting idea.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Call whoever is next, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

It's Mr. Coteau, and then I will go to Madame Ferrada and then Madam Kusie.

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Can we see the wording for that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

It will be circulated in a moment. That's supposed to be controlled from behind me.

Thank you for pointing that out. Have you concluded, Mr. Coteau?

[Michael Coteau, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have concluded.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Madame Ferrada and then Madam Kusie.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Zarrillo, we can discuss how we want to structure the study and the number of witnesses we will invite. The motion asks us to focus primarily on health care. We have also given ourselves a minimum number of days in which to do the study. But we can decide to give ourselves a little more time, if we feel the need to extend the study so that everyone has the time to question the witnesses and so that we can produce a report that properly reflects the intent of the motion.

I am also in favour of the amendment.