Human Resources Committee on Oct. 25th, 2023

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Jones, I want to talk about the timing of the program. In my riding, sometimes I will get calls from employers who applied for the jobs and most likely know they're going to get the jobs, but haven't received the notification yet. I get a call saying, “I'm going to miss out on hiring Susan here because I haven't got the official notice.” Sometimes, I cross my fingers and say, “Well, I think you're good.” It's a little leap of faith.

Is timing an issue for you, from when you apply to when you actually get notification that you can hire students?

[Devon Jones]

Similar to the points that the other deputants have made, it definitely is. If you have someone like Chris, for example, who's a math savant, and I would like to have him work in our advanced math program but he's secured a job someplace else and is waiting on us to solidify and confirm where he's going to be working, I can't tangibly say yes to him. Some years, you might get 25 spots, and some years, you might get four or five. You can't tangibly speak to employability until you get that number, and that number can vary based on whatever variables.

Our MP is awesome and is really accommodating and advocates for the initiative based on the scope of the work that we do, but we never know how much money is going to be allocated to us.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Long.

Ms. Chabot, you have the floor for two and a half minutes

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Several witnesses talked about the flexibility and duration of the program. In terms of restrictions—I'll call it that—several talked about 11 to 12 weeks of employment, or 10 to 12 weeks, which differs from the experience I've had in my riding. It must also be said that we have slightly fewer resources. Going back to what was offered before the pandemic, in our opinion, takes no account of demographics, inflation or the cost of living. That's why an increase in the terms and conditions of the program should be considered.

Mr. Shepherd, do you think the number of weeks has much importance given the type of summer camp you offer? Are the consequences different if the duration of employment is only eight weeks versus 11 or 12 weeks?

[Brent Shepherd]

Thank you.

The duration is important, but the flexibility is also in the way the hours are structured. With its being eight weeks, the students that we hired needed to have alternative employment. We wanted to stretch that over the course of 11 weeks, but we were unable to do so because it reduced the hours underneath the 30-hour requirement over the course of a week. It was that duration. Obviously, if the number of hours increases to allow for a 12-week program, that issue of flexibility goes away. If we're not able to run or if there are not the resources to run a 12-week program, then the flexibility to be able to change the hours, to stretch those hours or to run morning programs instead of all-day programs would also assist. This would allow the student to work for us and for someone else.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

You spoke—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have 10 seconds left.

[Louise Chabot, Bloc, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

The length of the camp must also have an impact on the young people.

Don't you agree?

[Brent Shepherd]

That's correct.

Based on the funding, we try to make our camps and our summer activities flexible. We try to bake in flexibility for our camps so that we can respond appropriately with the type of employment that we are going to be offering or that we receive funding for.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you.

We now have Ms. Zarrillo to conclude.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

I want to open the floor to Mr. Jones to share thoughts around students with disabilities, the supplement that is available and if you've had to use it.

[Devon Jones]

We do have a lot of students with learning disabilities. We just don't publicize them. The teacher in the class would know, but we don't really let the student teachers be aware of that.

Our teaching model is quite unique, actually. We have a teacher, sometimes we have two teachers, in the classroom. We also have a high-functioning student in high school or post-secondary—possibly two or three—who is in the classroom providing support to those students who, to Chris's point, are struggling. It is so integrated and encompassing that there isn't the assumption that.... We want to do it without having the student be pulled out or somewhat relegated. We want to do it in the most inclusive way possible.

As a teacher who taught special education for years, I will say that it's impossible to get to all your students. In our program design, as educators and as professors, we ensured that we had a model that was receptive of those students with learning exceptionalities so that we could best accommodate them with that model. It's awesome that you have young people in the classroom who are high functioning and who can go to those students and they look just like them, speak their language, are from their community, understand their swag and understand their reality. It really does make a difference.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

That's wonderful. If you think about the number of skills students are attaining there with summer jobs, that's incredible. I just wonder if there is an opportunity to have subsidies or additional training for your teachers in that space.

[Devon Jones]

Definitely. I'll go back to that point. For example, we have a partnership with Sony, where we have a media team that runs a Sony space. That's another piece of experiential learning.

To Ms. Chabot's point, I think that, for high-functioning candidates, there shouldn't be parity as it relates to what you're paying a 16-year-old versus a 30-year-old, so we also have to factor in that piece. If you have a high-functioning young person who is four or five years into university or is in grad school, we can't really pay them $17 or $18. If we had the flexibility to pay them significantly more based on their capacity and love of education, that's one of the areas I would add to this program.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Ms. Zarrillo.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Christopher, you're an impressive presenter, and you've made a good career choice, I must say.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, witnesses. It was really good testimony today.

We will suspend while we bring in the next group of witnesses. Those appearing virtually can exit at their will. To those in the room, thank you for presenting.

We'll suspend for four minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Committee members, if you could take your places, we will resume the second panel.

In this panel we have, from Habitat for Humanity Hamilton, Sean Ferris, who is appearing virtually; from Karma Country Camp, Shawna Akerman, who is appearing in the room; and from Société Place Maillardville Society, Gord Pederson, executive director, who is appearing virtually.

We did have a fourth panellist in the first round. They were supposed to appear in this round but we've lost them. However, they have submitted their speaking notes to the committee.

I remind witnesses that you each have five minutes for your opening comments. You can choose to speak in the official language of your choice. You have the interpretation. For those appearing virtually, you can see the interpretation icon at the bottom of your screen—it's the globe icon. Use it to choose the language of your choice.

We will begin with a statement, of five minutes or less, from Mr. Ferris, representing Habitat for Humanity.

Mr. Ferris, you have the floor.

[Sean Ferris, Chief Executive Officer, Habitat for Humanity Hamilton]

Thank you very much.

On behalf of Habitat for Humanity Hamilton and our board of directors, I just want to thank you for the opportunity to speak today.

To set the context for my remarks, let me begin by sharing that I represent the Habitat for Humanity Hamilton affiliate, one of 48 Habitat for Humanity affiliates in Canada who work every day to tackle the affordable housing crisis. The scope of the work we do across the country is very large because of the scope of the crisis. Access to skills and talent through the Canada summer jobs program helps us advance that work.

Habitat engages the local community through volunteerism and donations to build new homes and offer affordable mortgages to those who could not otherwise attain home ownership. In Hamilton, we also offer repairs on vacant homes to put them back into affordable housing stock for the city of Hamilton, as well as critical repairs for homeowners who could not otherwise afford those repairs. This year in Hamilton, we are building 17 new homes and are repairing 12.

Finally, we operate a social enterprise, called the ReStore, which pays for operational overhead and ensures that 100% of donations are directed to the delivery of affordable housing.

As an overview of our experience in the program, I would like to share the following: Habitat Hamilton has participated in the Canada summer jobs program for the past eight years. The program has enabled Habitat Hamilton to engage an average of over four youth each year. Those youth have enabled us to further our work both in the Habitat construction program as well as the in the ReStore social enterprise during the summer months.

It's very important to us because, in the summer months, people take vacations. At that time of year, we experience lower volunteerism and lower staffing levels. Furthermore, since schools have a summer break, we experience a decrease in student participation through the Ontario youth apprenticeship program, as well as high school co-operative education programs.

The youth we have employed through the Canada summer jobs program have gained experience in both retail and construction operations. They are exposed to the value of not-for-profit organizations and, working alongside volunteers, the benefits of volunteering. They learn about the importance of stable housing and, maybe most importantly, they learn the important lessons that people gain from working hard as part of a team. In certain circumstances, we have kept Canada summer job students on board beyond the duration of the program, at our own expense, for a continued mutual benefit.

The program has saved Habitat Hamilton an average of about $30,000 per year. We would not have hired this many staff, if any staff at all, if not for this program, which would have decreased or delayed our contribution to the affordable housing stock locally.

I'm glad to hear that it sounds like this program will continue. I was going to kindly request that the program continue, but it sounds like that's a non-issue, so I'm happy to hear that.

Based on feedback from my team, I'd like to offer a few suggestions for enhancements to the program, for your consideration.

First, the Canada summer jobs program pays an hourly rate equal to the minimum wage. Habitat for Humanity Hamilton is a living wage employer, both so as to not further exacerbate poverty within our own staff and also to attract higher performing applicants, especially for the construction of our homes. Habitat Hamilton must pay the difference between the amount of the subsidy and the amount we pay our staff, and we would respectfully recommend an increased amount of subsidy to offset the amount we need to pay to meet our compensation standards.

Second, Habitat Hamilton works in several federal ridings. However, the Canada summer jobs program limits the employment of youth to one riding. This limits our ability to commit to the program. If we were able to move Canada summer job students to different build sites, or to different ReStore locations, we would be able to utilize the summer jobs program more and deliver more for our community.

Third, in our work, there are a number of personal protective equipment requirements, such as steel-toed footwear. Offering subsidies for this equipment would help with employing youth.

Fourth, Habitat for Humanity would also benefit from subsidies for employing youth from September to April. We have a variety of special projects and youth who don't necessarily go to school in the conventional time period. As a result, we could certainly take advantage of an expanded time period.

Finally, there are two planned financial reimbursements, to my knowledge. Our cash flow would benefit from a faster repayment schedule.

That's what I have to offer you today. Thank you very much for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Ferris.

Ms. Akerman, you have five minutes.

[Shawna Akerman, Chief Executive Officer, Registered Psychotherapist, Karma Country Camp]

I'm going to tell a bit of a different story. These are big organizations. I'm a single enterprise here.

I raised two kids with disabilities—with profound hearing loss and cochlear implants. I've used almost every government system in our education boards—in Toronto and the York Region board. As a special ed teacher, I also made a huge impact and change for disabilities. I then turned into a registered psychotherapist, which I do in my day job. I run my non-profit charity summer day camp through the summer.

I have six locations across the GTA. I actually put in nine different grant applications in nine different municipalities and received six of them. I hired 52 employees this summer and ran summer programs for over 100 students. It was quite a big impact.

Throughout the year, through my psychotherapy practice, I continue to keep on a lot of those staff as mentors and role models. I have speech-language pathologists, teachers, occupational therapists and anything that comes out of our community colleges and universities to help people with disabilities.

I, myself, am neurodiverse. I have been through our education system many different ways and I struggle immensely. Your government grant has tons of barriers for me, as does even sitting still here today.

I really love the flexibility of funds. I'd like to be able to hire more people throughout the year. I get students from a few different career colleges. They do their internships and practicums with me throughout the year. I'd like to be able to hire them from January to April to keep the scaffolding and the mentoring going.

I am servicing people with autism for the Autism Ontario program through psychotherapy, through their benefit systems, through passport funding and through ODSP.

My daughter just got a hearing dog. That's through the Lions. That was a six-year wait.

I help parents with the disability tax credit. I have all of that knowledge. I've used every program in our board.

I support the transition from high school into employment. There are 92 government agencies in Ontario that I deal with consistently to try to find funds to help everyone find jobs and keep moving. Everyone is stuck right now in every way, with education and medical. All of our government programs are stuck.

Your summer program is amazing because it gives me 52 staff. However, for those 52 staff, I have every single grant application to fill out—all of the paperwork and six different.... Tony is one of the guys—you are amazing—who came and visited two of my locations. We did some social media stuff together.

I also have a full-time job. I do this part time. Imagine me trying to find a camp director.

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

You have two minutes.