Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 10th, 2009

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, it was an interesting article by Fareed Zakaria, who noted the relative success of Canada's immigration system in fuelling, in part, our economic growth recently. All I would add is that one of the reasons we've planned to maintain immigration levels for the next year is precisely because we believe that immigration will be the fuel of the jobs of the future. When we come into the recovery phase, out of this global economic downturn, we will need people to fuel the future jobs, and the last thing we want is to come to the recovery phase and have labour market shortages. I was just in western Canada on the weekend meeting with employers and temporary foreign workers, and I can tell you there continues to be demand for permanent residents, for temporary foreign workers, in certain sectors in certain regions, notwithstanding the downturn in the overall labour market.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. Wong.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and colleagues from the ministry.

I have two very short questions and I expect that probably you can shed some light on these two questions.

First of all, my area of interest is multiculturalism, and thank you very much for last time telling us how you see the direction of multiculturalism. So could you please comment on the progress of the transition of multiculturalism, moving from Heritage to Citizenship and Immigration? That's my first question.

The second question has to do with your recent announcement that you would like to increase the number of foreign students in Canada. If you look at the financial situation right now and also look at all the contributions either in the financial situation and/or the training of these people who would be our ambassadors to different parts of the world and the fact that these people might also be potentially staying in Canada as well, how would you like to accomplish this? And what kind of plan do you have in mind, please?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you.

On the first question, as I underscored in my last appearance at this committee, as a result of a decision made by the Prime Minister we've transferred the multiculturalism program from Heritage Canada to CIC.

Many people have commented that the settlement services that CIC offers end when people become citizens, and there is a gap there because in many cases people may still need assistance in terms of the challenges of integration. When I was Secretary of State at Canadian Heritage, I worked to modify the objectives of the multiculturalism program, in part to focus on the challenges of integration. My vision of this is that the robust settlement programs we are now funding through CIC, which end at citizenship, can now transition, hopefully seamlessly, into continued support for integration through the multiculturalism program for people who are new Canadian citizens. That's why we've located the multiculturalism program within the citizenship directorate at CIC. What we want to do is find programs that we can fund through the multiculturalism program--grants and contributions and partners in civil society--that can work on the challenges of integration.

I will be bringing forward in the supplementary estimates (A) in May the transfer of funding from PCH to CIC for the multiculturalism program. By the way, this is a positive change for multiculturalism. My sense was that over at Heritage it was a little boutique program. Here it makes a lot more sense. It's in a department with more resources focused on integration, and we can do a lot more with it at Immigration, which is actually where it was located before 1994.

In terms of foreign students, the Canadian university and college sector has commented that Canada is not competitive with other countries as it relates to attracting qualified foreign students. I'm told that, for instance, Australia attracts ten times more Indian university students than does Canada. Maybe some of that has to do with geography, perhaps some of it with climate, but we have great universities and tremendous learning opportunities. We also have the new Canadian experience class, which is a tremendous marketing advantage that offers a pathway to permanent residency for qualified foreign students.

The Prime Minister has asked me to work with my colleagues at Foreign Affairs and International Trade and in the Canadian colleges and university sector to see how we can better market the Canadian post-secondary education product and attract a larger number of qualified foreign students, who are much desired by our post-secondary institutions because they are paying full fees. I also think that the new program we have with the Canadian experience class will be a huge advantage to our economy, because if you have a student here for four years who has perfected their language skills, who has obtained a Canadian degree that will be immediately recognized by a credentialling agency, a licensing agency, these students are, in a sense, pre-integrated. They have a huge head start in comparison with federal skilled workers who are coming in with foreign degrees.

This is something we really want to put an emphasis on, and as I said, I'm working with my colleagues in both International Trade and Foreign Affairs as well as the post-secondary education sector to see how we can increase and more effectively market the opportunities for foreign students in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister and Ms. Wong.

Mr. Coderre, it is your turn, and I'd like to welcome you to the committee. You have five minutes.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I know fully well what my colleague, the Minister, feels today. I have had myself to answer these types of questions.

I would like to return to the case of Pharès Pierre, who has quite a record. You know fully well, Mr. Minister, that Citizenship and Immigration has close links with Foreign affairs and security agencies; it is a powerful department. We are faced this morning with this reality: this appointment does not respect the principle of justice and the appearance of fairness.

You might say that you were not aware of the record of Mr. Pharès Pierre, but nevertheless this appointment is extremely troubling. It is very obvious that when refugees who fled the Aristide regime at the time have to face a Pharès Pierre, who was chief of staff of this president, serious ethical problems will arise.

This morning, the Immigration and Refugee Board stated that security is also a responsibility of your department.

I would like to ask Mr. Fadden, whom I know well, what he did on this file. If the Minister was not aware of the past of Mr. Pharès Pierre, the department must have known. Was it hidden from him or was he aware of the record of Mr. Pharès Pierre?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Coderre, as a minister, I am ultimately responsible for all appointments, but I was not aware of this. I found out this morning in the newspaper. I intend to talk with the chairperson of the IRB to find out how the pre-selection process was conducted.

I will now let the deputy minister answer.

[Richard Fadden]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The review process of appointments prior to the recommendation to the minister is slightly different from that which was used when you were minister, Mr. Coderre. The government decided to give the IRB full responsibility for reviewing appointments. Consequently, nor myself nor the minister have any involvement in this process. The process is entirely conducted by the IRB.

A number of criteria must be met. There is a written exam and two interviews. The appointment is then sent to the minister. As was the case when you were minister, security checks are made once the appointments have been sent to the minister. The department is not involved as such.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Therefore, the spokesperson of the Immigration and Refugee Board lied to the press when she said that your department was responsible for security matters. That is my conclusion.

[Richard Fadden]

The department was involved in the establishment of the new system but it does not have any role in the appointments.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Minister, do you intend to withdraw this appointment, now that you are aware of the past of Mr. Pierre? I do not mean his affiliation with the Progressive-Conservative Party but his affinity with Aristide.

Are you going to withdraw his candidacy, yes or no?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I will look into it. I do not have the power to cancel an appointment. I was not even aware of his partisan record, nor did I know that the Progressive-Conservative Party had a Quebec wing.

Allow me to quote from the Website of the IRB:

Under the revised selection process, the IRB chairperson will be accountable for the selection of qualified candidates as recommended to the minister to be considered for appointment to the IRB.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

If that is so, as a minister, do you recommend all of the appointments?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, I have to take the ultimate responsibility.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Being the person accountable, now that you are aware of this issue, could you consider withdrawing this candidacy?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

As you know fully well, I do not have the power to do so, but I will review the issue. I only found out about this two hours ago and I will discuss it with the chairperson of the IRB.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

When did you receive the appointment of Mr. Pharès Pierre? You said you appointed 90 percent of the candidates?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I do not know the exact date, but we made all the appointments during the two last Cabinet meetings, over the last six weeks.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Minister and Mr. Coderre.

Ms. Grewal, you have five minutes.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Minister, for coming. I have a couple of questions for you.

The first one is that the main estimates include a new line this year for internal services. Could you please explain what services are included in this budget line and how these expenses were previously accounted for?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I will pass this financial detail to the deputy.

[Richard Fadden]

Mr. Chairman, this reflects a change that was decided upon at the government level. These services include matters such as administration, accommodation, informatics, finance, and personnel. Previously they were allocated to the substantive programs of the department proportionately. They were dispersed amongst integration, citizenship, and what not. A decision was taken to report them separately so that Parliament would have a clearer idea of how much was spent on these support services.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Previously this committee had heard anecdotal evidence of the poor working conditions of some temporary foreign workers. Are there any plans to address this matter? Could you please explain that?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Are there any plans to address...?

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Are there any plans to address the poor working conditions of temporary workers?