Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 10th, 2009

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, there were 72 applications and only one was granted. Why is your department denying Canadian citizens their citizenship? If you don't have the numbers, Minister, we have Don Chapman in the room here. He has been appearing in this committee. He can stand up and testify how many you have done: one. One to the veteran whom your minister flew down and who was coerced into saying yes, I want to take citizenship. Only one, Minister, and you've had a full year. There are 72 applications on your desk and you haven't done anything.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're well over, Mr. Karygiannis.

If you can give a quick answer, go ahead, otherwise we'll move on.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm afraid that Mr. Karygiannis is characteristically wrong. I can tell him that I personally made several recommendations under subsection 5(4) to the cabinet, I think in the order of eight.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Minister, the 2008-09 estimates show $274 million for language training of immigrants to Canada. I would like to know if this contribution includes amounts to Quebec for this purpose or if this is only for Canada outside of Quebec.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I will ask Mr. Ganim to answer.

[Wayne Ganim, Chief Financial Officer, Finance Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

No, this amount does not include the contribution to Quebec.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Fine.

As well, these estimates show a decrease of $8.4 million in the Main Estimates of the department, resulting from provisions of the Canada-Quebec agreement. What are the reasons for this decrease? You will find this information on page I-32 of the 2008-09 Main Estimates.

[Wayne Ganim]

These reductions are an adjustment to the amount we forecast to be paid to the government of Quebec, and not an adjustment to the present amount being paid. The amount we pay to the government of Quebec under the agreement cannot decrease; it either has to increase or to remain the same. Adjustments are made from year to year, during the same period, in relation to the forecast. We adjust the payment made to Quebec according to two factors: first, the number of non-Francophone immigrants, which is adjusted on an annual basis, and second net federal expenditures. This represents another adjustment that is being made to the payments to Quebec every year.

In a nutshell, the amount paid to Quebec can never decrease.

[Jean Dorion, Bloc, Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC]

Would you like to follow up on this subject, Mr. Minister?

Go ahead, Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I do not necessarily want to remain on this subject. I would just like to take the opportunity of your appearance, Mr. Minister, to ask you a question.

This morning, the newspapers reported the appointment of Mr. Pharès Pierre, who used to be chief of staff in the Aristide government. Many lawyers are wondering about the ethics of this appointment, since this man has been a member of a government that has been harshly criticized for various aspects of its governance.

Are we not in a rather paradoxical situation, since this person might have to deal with refugee cases who claim to have been persecuted under the regime of Aristide? Do you see any ethical issue in this regard? Was your government aware of the record of this individual? What do you propose to do?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

As you know, a new system has been established for the pre-selection of appointees to the IRB. The appointment of Mr. Pierre was made under this system. It means that he was chosen through the IRB pre-selection process, which is based on merit and which includes an interview and a review. Next, the Privy Council Office makes a selection based on security aspects. The individual in question was recommended to me by the IRB. We try to appoint Canadians from various backgrounds and that is the case here.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Were you aware of his past?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No, not personally.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

According to the biographical notes on the Website of the department, Mr. Pierre holds a bachelor of mathematics, with a specialization in education and so on. He was also vice-president and treasurer of the executive of what was then the Progressive-Conservative Party and vice-president of the Quebec wing of this party.

Why did you not mention this in theses biographical notes?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I do not know. I found this out when I read the article this morning. I did not know such a party existed in Quebec.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Okay.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

It is the first time I hear about this party.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Calandra.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Minister.

I wonder if you'll just bear with me for a moment. I want to quote briefly, if I may, from a National Post article before I get into my question. It's specific to a gentleman who recently was “un-deported”, as such. He's a member of AK Kannan, which is a violent Toronto street gang named after its favourite assault rifle, the AK-47.

The article states that the Toronto police report that this gentleman was involved “in the fatal shooting of two teenagers, a meat cleaver attack, the trashing of a community centre, threats, assaults and credit card theft”. The reason that he was “un-deported” was that they made a mistake in 2005.

Other people who are frustrated by this are those in the Tamil community in particular. In a statement from the Canadian Tamil Congress, they said they were very happy to see this gentleman deported. They've been making a lot of strides in recent years to clean up the image of their community.

I have a specific question. Recently there was a motion brought forward in this committee not to deport anyone to Sri Lanka. It was a motion brought forward by a Liberal member of this committee, unanimously supported by the opposition members of this committee and opposed by the Conservative members. I'm wondering if you might comment on the effect this would have specifically on individuals who are involved in serious criminal activities or who may have participated or been involved in war crimes in Sri Lanka.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Just to be clear, I think you're speaking about the case of Mr. Nagalingam. Is that right?

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Correct.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I understand he was deported in 2005. I further understand that an agreement was made by the previous government, through its Department of Justice, with Mr. Nagalingam that if his appeal was upheld he would be returned to Canada at the expense of the government. That's what happened. A federal judge overturned the danger opinion, and pursuant to the agreement made by the previous Liberal government, he was returned.

My advice is that this agreement was not required by law. It was a discretionary decision by the previous government. I'm perplexed as to why it was made. We are unfortunately legally bound to implement the agreement. That's why he was returned to Canada. I can assure you that we are arguing and will continue to argue at every possible venue that Mr. Nagalingam constitutes a danger and should remain in immigration detention.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

If I can follow up with respect to the motion that we did pass in this committee, it made its way through this committee, as I said, brought forward by a Liberal member and supported by the opposition, and was basically forbidding the government from deporting anybody to Sri Lanka regardless of their criminal activity.

As a follow-up, could you comment on what impact that would have on people who are involved in serious crimes and who may, as I said, be implicated in war crimes at a later time?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We do have a process, Mr. Calandra, for adding countries to a list of countries that have a temporary stay of removals. That is to say, there's a joint committee of Public Safety and CIC, which, based on information often provided by the United Nations, makes recommendations about what countries we should not remove people to.

I would point out that when we do add countries to the TSR list, this has the consequence of prohibiting us from removing people who constitute a danger to Canadians and who are guilty of serious and sometimes violent crimes. That's why I think we should proceed with great caution when it comes to adding countries to the TSR.

Our first responsibility as a government and as parliamentarians is to protect the safety and security of Canadians, and it's our intention to do so.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you.

My second question, Minister, I will ask quickly. A constituent of mine sent a wonderful article--I thought, anyway--from Newsweek magazine recently that praised our commitment to permanently settling skilled individuals in Canada. I was wondering if you could comment on the success of this approach.