Evidence of meeting #83 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thank you.
Are closed work permits allowed under international law? For example, has the Canadian government been prosecuted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity or something like that for issuing such permits?
3:55 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
No, not to my knowledge.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
I want to ask you a bit more. You had talked about the idea of a sectoral occupational work permit as maybe an alternative to what we have today. Could you explain why, in your opinion, you think that's better than having, say, an open work permit?
3:55 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
We have a variety of open work permits today. We have open work permits, for instance, for the postgraduate work permit program or for spouses of foreign workers. With an open work permit, an individual can work in any occupation for any employer and in any location. There are no restrictions on them whatsoever. If the purpose of bringing temporary foreign workers to Canada to work in specific occupations is to address labour shortages, an open work permit does not meet the goal.
The issue with closed work permits is the inability of a foreign national to move from employer to employer, particularly in a circumstance when they are being abused. The sectoral work permits present a compromise, an ability to continue to have a program where individuals are working in a particular occupation but where, by the same token, they are not being left in the position that their ability to remain in the country and their livelihood are completely tied to one employer.
Also, under the open work permit scheme, nothing about what the employee is being paid gets tracked. With closed work permits, there's either an LMIA backing them up or something called the “Employer Portal”, where employers have to go to put in an offer of employment that sets out all the terms and conditions. From there comes the ability of the government to conduct inspections. If you have completely open work permits, there is no entry of that information anywhere. Those are not subject to the current inspection regime, so those employers would no longer be subject to any inspection of how they are treating their foreign workers.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Just to make sure I understand, if you're a farmer or an agriculture producer expecting to have certain workers to take your crop off, for example, having an open work permit would put you at risk, because those employees might go somewhere else.
3:55 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
That is true, but, more importantly, what I'm saying is that because there is no mechanism, once you are in an open work permit, no one knows that this foreign worker is working for that farmer. There are no mechanisms to inspect what kind of conditions are being provided to the foreign workers. With a sectoral work permit, where the terms and conditions of employment would be listed and employers would have to sign on to agree to those terms and conditions, they could still be subject to inspections.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
One thing you mentioned is that the purpose of a closed work permit is to address labour shortages. I think that's what you said. Could you maybe drill into that a bit? How does that work versus, for example, an open work permit?
3:55 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
The purpose of having the temporary foreign worker program in itself is to address labour shortages where Canadians aren't available for an occupation. An open work permit allows anyone to work in any occupation. You might bring somebody in and think they're going to work on farms, but they could work in any other sector. Having a sectoral work permit would ensure that you have individuals working in the sector that has the shortages but with the ability to move from employer to employer.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thank you.
I'm going to ask the Canadian Labour Congress a question.
With respect to on-site inspections of workplaces, do you believe that ESDC should bring employers into compliance with the rules, or should they be trying to punish them for infractions? What should be the priority there?
4 p.m.
Senior Researcher, Canadian Labour Congress
The priority should be to put everything in place to protect the rights of the migrant worker in whatever the situation, whether it's on farms, in your corner store or in a manufacturing facility. I think if all the holes were plugged, so to speak, then the need for the inspections to be a stick wouldn't be necessary. However, it is necessary because of the way the program is designed. Unfortunately, that is the case.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Thank you, Mr. Redekopp.
We will go to Mr. Chiang for six minutes, and then to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.
Please go ahead.
November 9th, 2023 / 4 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today and giving their expert testimony.
My questions are directed to Ms. Ramo. Thank you for your opening remarks and the points you raised.
As an expert in immigration law, do you believe recent reforms have effectively balanced the needs of employers with the protection of temporary foreign workers?
4 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
I think that recent changes are a step in the right direction. For instance, I think the introduction of tighter rules around inspections and the expectations of employers that were introduced in September of last year are a step in the right direction.
I think there is still room for improvement, in particular around inspections. I think unannounced inspections would be an improvement to the current system.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
How can the Canadian government improve the integration of temporary foreign workers into society considering the challenges they face, such as social exclusion?
4 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
One of our key recommendations is having better pathways for permanent residency, particularly for the low-skilled and agricultural workers. We believe that permanent residency is the best form of integration possible. A foreign national doesn't become a permanent guest worker who is in Canada year after year without being able to enjoy the benefits of permanent residency.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Ms. Ramo, in your experience, what role does corporate responsibility play in ensuring fair treatment and protection of temporary foreign workers within multinational corporations?
4 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
I think the role of the corporation is to ensure that the rights of workers are protected and that they work within all the parameters of not only immigration law but also employment standards and occupational health and safety rules. I think the corporation also plays a role in ensuring that workers are aware of their rights and that they have mechanisms for bringing forth complaints, like abuse tip hotlines, and in addressing complaints raised to ensure that employees are protected.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
In your experience, do you feel that temporary foreign workers should be granted automatic residency in Canada?
4 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
I think there should be clear pathways, particularly for low-skilled workers and agricultural workers, to have access to permanent residency. Currently, for the programs we have in place, such as express entry and even the provincial nominee programs, workers in the low-wage streams find it very difficult to qualify. I think it's about taking them out of that general pool and putting in place dedicated programs that, for instance, reduce things like language requirements and educational requirements so they have the ability to qualify for permanent residency without having to compete with more highly skilled workers.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Ms. Ramo, you have nearly 30 years of experience in labour law. Do you feel the laws we have in Canada are fair to temporary foreign workers or to the closed work permit people here?
4 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
I think we need to differentiate between the different types of temporary foreign workers.
We have a variety of programs. For instance, there's the international mobility program, where employers don't have to get a labour market impact assessment. Those are closed work permits, but the individuals coming into those programs are, for instance, intracompany transferees who have highly specialized knowledge or are senior executives. I think the level of protections required for such workers is different from the level of protection required for the workers the UN rapporteur was looking at, who were more in the lower-skilled and agricultural sectors, because those workers, by their very definition, are more subject to abuse.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Have you had an opportunity to look at the UN special rapporteur's report, Ms. Ramo?
4:05 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
I read the document he provided in September of this year.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Paul Chiang Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Would you say that's a fair assessment of the temporary foreign worker rules here in Canada?
4:05 p.m.
Chair, National Immigration Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association
The rapporteur brings up a number of issues, which I think are very relevant, in relation to closed work permits and to some of the activities of recruiters, particularly recruiters outside of Canada, like debt bondage. I don't know that I would agree with everything in the report, but I think there are many areas of the report that bear reviewing and addressing.