Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 13th, 2007

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

What I have just heard from the parliamentary secretary is quite surprising. When the Liberals were in power, it was the Conservatives who had the parliamentary secretary or another member from the governing party removed from committees and subcommittees.

I feel that the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure should be made up of the chair, the two vice-chairs and a member from the other opposition party. We used to be four and we must continue to be four. Furthermore, at all the meetings we had—I have a lot of respect for the chair who preceded you—we never had any kind of conflict or problem because we worked by consensus.

I do not see why we would change that today, and this is the reason why we are going to vote against the motion, clearly.

As for the routine motions, they are the same—I repeat, the same—as we had last session. I suggest that we pass them quickly so that we will be able to start work on Thursday if possible, or next Tuesday.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you.

Mr. Storseth.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I really don't see a major change being made here. We're not asking for any extra votes on the committee, we're simply asking to be able to choose which one of our members represents the Conservative Party at the subcommittee.

I have had the opportunity to work on the transportation committee with the Honourable Mr. Scott. That committee worked in a very good non-partisan fashion and this was the exact structure we had. We had a chair who ran the meetings and we had a representative from each party who was there for partisan purposes. I think that's the most constructive way to move forward with this. I really don't see this to be a significant change.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Maybe Mr. Bruinooge would clarify the motion. Previously there were four members of the steering committee and each had a vote. Is what you're proposing that a fifth member be added, but that the chair would no longer have a vote so there would still be one vote for each caucus at the subcommittee?

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Yes, that's correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Mr. Lemay, does that address your concern?

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

No. I think we should continue to have four people, end of discussion. The chair, the two vice-chairs and a representative from the other opposition party, because the committee does not vote. It just makes recommendations and works by consensus.

I attended all the meetings and all we did was to decide who was coming to give evidence, when and where. That is what we did last session. I suspect that they want to add someone else, and I do not agree with that. Let us stick with four people.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thank you, Monsieur Lemay.

Mr. Scott and then Ms. Neville.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

I'm not a member of the committee, so I hesitate to get engaged too much, but I just want to bring your attention to the uncomfortable position that you find yourself in when you have four members and you're saying that the chair wouldn't vote. In reality, if it ever happened that there was a two-two tie—I've been there, and you don't want to be there—the reality is that becomes more troublesome for the chair than anything else that might actually happen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Thanks.

As I said, I have been on committees where it has been set up both ways, with four and with five. We're not breaking fresh ground in whichever decision we make.

Ms. Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I need some clarification.

Mr. Bruinooge indicated that it would be a member of the Conservative caucus who would attend. Does that mean it would be a member, or would it be the parliamentary secretary?

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Mr. Bruinooge.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Technically it could be any member of our committee. However, it would more likely than not be me.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Then I certainly could not support such a proposal. I don't think the executive branch of government should be part of the steering committee of a legislative committee of the House of Commons. I would not support the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Mr. Bruinooge.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

If the member opposite, Madam Neville, would be interested in a friendly amendment to my motion making it a member of our party who isn't the parliamentary secretary, we'd be happy to entertain that friendly amendment, if that's what she'd like.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

It seems to me like there's opposition to the idea. I'll bring it to a vote and maybe we could resolve this quickly.

Mr. Bruinooge has moved that the subcommittee on agenda and procedure, which currently has four members--the chair, who is from the governing party, the two vice-chairs, and a member of the other opposition party--be expanded so that there would be an additional government member on that committee, bringing the total to five; that the chair would no longer be a voting member; and that the additional Conservative member would not be the parliamentary secretary.

All in favour of Mr. Bruinooge's motion?

(Motion negatived)

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Just before I ask anyone for any other comments on the notice of motions, I believe 48 hours is the typical timeframe. If that's agreeable with the committee, then someone should make a motion that we make it 48 hours notice.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Are we not going in order here? Have we agreed--

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Sorry. I had thought when we started that we were probably going to adopt the whole thing, rather than going through them step by step.

Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I wish to move that the notice of motion be 48 hours.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Okay. I'd like to proceed in this way. I appreciate that it might be a bit confusing for some.

So we have a motion from Ms. Crowder--

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

And I'll second that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

--seconded by Mr. Bruinooge, that the notice of motion be 48 hours.

Ms. Crowder, you're simply inserting 48 hours into the paragraph as it appears?

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Yes. My understanding is that these are exactly the proceedings we adopted at the last committee, and the hours were just left blank so we could reconfirm them. So if that is exactly the motion....

The problem with dealing with this without advance notice is that I'm taking it on face value that these are exactly the proceedings we passed last time--