Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 8th, 2023

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you, Madam Gill.

We were just discussing that. There was that long pause after the first presentation. You are correct; they have about two and a half minutes left. I was thinking of letting Mrs. Atwin finish.... I think she is done. She just wrapped it up.

We'll let Chief Martin do his two and a half minutes, and then go back into the next round. I believe you're next.

Chief Martin, thank you. I'm sorry about that.

You have about two and a half minutes, if that's okay with the committee.

Is everyone okay with that? Thank you.

[Chief John Martin, Member of the Chiefs Committee, First Nations Education Council]

[Witness spoke in Mi'kmaq and provided the following text:]

Weli ulawg, iganpugultijig Ugjit N’nueiel Lugwowagann.

Nin John Martin tel’wisi. N’nu Sagamaw ugjit Gesgapegiagewag.

[Witness provided the following translation:]

Good evening to all members of the Standing Commitee on Indigenous Affairs.

My name is John Martin. I am the chief of the M'Kmaq of Gesgapegiag.

[English]

I just want to thank you for the opportunity to speak to you tonight.

I'm speaking about the first nations educational regional agreement. It's a historic agreement for us and a significant one. It's significant because it took 15 years of research on this formula. The work's all been done by first nations people. It's a funding model that has been entirely conducted and developed by and for first nations. It's based on the real needs of our students.

While the agreement certainly has room for improvement, it is a step forward toward what we have been advocating for since 1972, which is Indian control of Indian education. As the saying goes, “It takes two to dance.”

Actually, in the context of colonial governance, it takes three to dance. Provinces hold provincial jurisdiction in education, particularly when it comes to legislation and certification of education in their provincial programs.

This last point is a crucial point in the Quebec context. Despite our aboriginal rights, self-governance and self-determination in education, which we fully implement today as a result of the agreement, the province continues to arbitrarily impose the Charter of the French Language onto first nations education—mainly our students outside the community, who go to school outside the community.

The Quebec charter gravely affects our efforts to revitalize our languages by demoting them to third-level language status. It creates administrative hurdles for our students to access post-secondary education in Quebec and to receive an education in the language of their choice. It hinders critical professional services for students in the language of their choice. It also endangers the professionals who come to our communities where we speak only English.

To conclude this, the success of students' efforts is not just a one-way avenue. There's a responsibility on both the federal and provincial governments. There's an important role to play in this. Both governments have the responsibility to undo the damage done over the past 150 years. This can be done through real reconciliation and accommodation within the legislation and policies that are developed and that currently create barriers and hinder the present and future efforts to provide a quality education while respecting first nations values, traditions and languages.

We ask you to help us put an end to the existing barriers to graduation rates and increase successful outcomes for our students.

Wela'lioq.

I'd like to take the opportunity, as well, to acknowledge all the women present here today, as well as all the women in our community. A majority of our people leading the community are, in fact, women.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much, Chief Martin.

For six minutes, we go now to the Bloc Québécois and Madam Gill.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank all the witnesses who are here today.

As we have said many times, many of my colleagues are teachers themselves, probably teachers without pay. Ultimately, they have experience in education, particularly with first nations. This is my own case. I am a member of Parliament from the North Shore. The Innu Nation and the Naskapi Nation are present in my region. For me, the issue of languages is intimately associated with learning, success and, of course, identity. That is almost a truism.

I wish I had some idea of your needs. We do know that these needs are not homogeneous from one community to another and that we cannot apply the same solutions everywhere. We have looked at the reality of indigenous languages and have found that, in some communities, the language is dormant and cannot be revitalized without a lot of research first being done. On the other hand, in other communities, the language is very much alive.

At home, I hear the Innu language daily. I don't understand all of it, as it's very complex, but it's a really vibrant language that also has a literature. We see how strong that language is.

I would have liked you to paint a picture of your needs. I know the needs are very broad because there are 700 communities in Canada, but tell us about you, for example. We have Ms. Oakes who is a Plains Cree, as well the members of the First Nations Education Council.

I would like each of you in turn to paint a picture of your needs.

We've talked about funding; I know that's been welcomed by some of you, but what is really important?

Maybe you could tell us what the starting point is and how far it extends so that we can make proposals and recommendations that would be tailored to each request.

Feel free to present whatever proposals you like.

Ms. Saint‑Germain could start, followed by Ms. Oakes, Ms. Braunberger, and then those who are online, if they want to speak, of course.

[Member spoke in Innu]

[Renee St. Germain]

Thank you for the question.

Our indigenous languages are in a vital state, and we really do need to work towards revitalization. When we look across the country and the funding that goes out to help revitalize our indigenous languages, it's not enough. Even with the passing of the Indigenous Languages Act, that hasn't provided sustainable funding and long-term funding to build up the languages within the communities.

We do see examples of first nations languages being spoken. There are examples of immersion schools that exist. The Mi'kmaq have some immersion schools that are thriving, and the language is doing better than those in other parts of the country. However, that's not consistent across the country. We really do need that long-term sustainable funding to see our languages developed both within and outside the education system.

[Irene Oakes]

Thank you as well for that question. I appreciate that.

I sat here thinking about what would be the best answer. Of course the biggest thing, which was just repeated, is that funding is huge. We know that. Another area that I see is training. We need to provide the proper training for our people on the front lines with regard to the best way. Utilizing and including the written form is not the way. It has to be a form that lifelong speakers have been taught, because if you don't meet the needs within the communities, they're not going to be met.

In the areas I come from, it varies. It seems as though the further north you go in the prairie provinces, the more available it is, the more alive. Further south, it's dying. We need to develop a strategy at the AFN and at the regional level, within our regional PTOs, and our leadership needs to take the lead.

Thank you. Hai hai.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'm having trouble seeing the people who are online.

If other witnesses would like to take turns providing answers, and if I still have time, I would like to hear from the First Nations Education Council representatives, who are also present, and the First Nations with Schools Collective.

Thank you.

[Annie Gros-Louis]

I can provide an answer.

As you know, in education, the primary vehicles are our languages. As you mentioned, Mrs. Gill, some of our languages are dormant. They are alive, but they remain fragile.

We see this when we work in our schools. Teachers and speakers are present. That said, their numbers are dwindling, and we need to make the most of their presence. I'm not telling you anything new when I say that a speaker leaving is sort of like a library closing.

We are increasingly hearing that we need to support efforts in the territory and the languages of the territory. That needs to be taken into consideration. Certainly, when we explore the options available to us with teachers in different schools—and this is regardless of the region, as each one really has its own complexity—we must keep in mind the importance of the language of the territory. There's an important element there to consider.

[Leslee White-Eye]

I'll add that—

I'm sorry.

[Chief John Martin]

No, go ahead. I'll speak after you.

[Leslee White-Eye]

Meegwetch, Chief.

I'll just add that we need full-time language coordinators to develop the programs, monitoring assessments and materials to support the teachers. We need full language immersion funding—just as school boards enjoy for French—in every one of those schools. We also need grade development for the inclusion of fluent speakers so that they are paid equitably and fairly for their contributions to our schools.

Meegwetch.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

I need to jump in here, it's been a bit over time. We are going now to the NDP.

Lori Idlout, you have six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Chairman. I think Chief John wants to respond. I will wait for him to respond first before I jump into my questions.

Thank you.

[Chief John Martin]

Thank you.

With regard to the situation in this province, Quebec, a lot of our English-speaking first nation communities are struggling. I come from a Mi'kmaq community. In our households right now, we have approximately 13% of the households that still use the language. I'm familiar with many communities across the Maritimes where the language is practically non-existent.

We are in a situation where our languages in our area are on the verge of extinction. The language laws that Quebec recently passed have had a significant impact in the continuation of the loss of our language. The space is taken up. We have to compete with modern-day technology, children walk around with their phones connected to a different world, a different language.

The criteria of the French charter that's imposed on our people now is much more stringent than it was. In my community right now, I'm looking at eight out of 10 students who go into adult education, which is in the English school system. They dropped out. They don't have the French credits that they need to be able to graduate high school. This prevents them from gaining access to post-secondary education in Quebec.

In my community, we've been struggling with this law for the past 40 years. It has had a very significant impact on the development of capacity in our community and our people. It is a lot. It is very colonialistic. It is continuing the job of the extinguishment of our language and our culture.

We really need the federal government to step in and do something to support first nations. We've tried with the Quebec government to seek accommodation within the legislation, but there's been absolutely no acceptance for accommodation.

I want the government to be aware that our situation is critical. It has an impact on the loss of our language. It also has a very important capacity on my community in terms of developing capacity for our future generations, our future leaders. We lose a significant number of students every year as a result of that.

Wela'lioq.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you.

I have a question for Leslee, who works for the First Nations collective agency.

It seems you are doing very good work where you are. You continue to pursue or stand your ground where education in first nations languages is concerned. Now, you are striving for more opportunities to continue to grow.

What problems do you face when you are not having your needs met?

[Leslee White-Eye]

Thank you for that important question, MP Idlout.

The first part of it is funding. Eighty per cent of participating communities in the collective undertake an immersion program, only to be faced with walls because there isn't enough funding to build the program before the teacher enters the classroom. They need assessments, lesson plans, a curriculum and somebody with skills to coordinate all of that. They're out there, but you have to compete and pay them properly to do the work.

The second and most important piece is this: We have the speakers. They're not OCT-qualified, but they can provide that conversational, immersive language—which is what our young kids need—quite easily, with the support of a teacher. That type of funding is just not available in this current interim funding approach.

There's a real need, here, to take advantage of what I'll call this last decade of fluent speakers. I believe we've seen the model. Renee talked about it. If you give that conversational language to children in grade 1, 2, 3 or 4, or in kindergarten or earlier, the dying of a language goes away. That, to me, is an investment. You're going to get far more return on a dollar spent in a first nations school that offers immersion, and real change happening in language recovery.

Meegwetch.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Unfortunately, we are out of time in this round, Ms. Idlout. Thank you very much for your questions.

Chief Martin, do you have your hand up again, or is it just up since you last spoke?

[Chief John Martin]

Oh, I can't feel my arm anymore. It's been up too long.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

I'm just checking. Thank you very much, sir.

Unfortunately, we don't have any more time for another round, but we'd like to thank our witnesses for their valuable contributions and the great discussion we've had so far.

We are going to briefly suspend while we change over for the next panel.

I thank everyone for being here, either in person or remotely. I look forward to more conversations.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Welcome to our second panel. We thank the committee for their patience here.

Dr. Cook, you're in person. Lucky you, you get to go first. If you want to kick it off, you have five minutes to give your opening statement. Then we will go to our panellists online for five minutes each and then have some questions.

Dr. Cook, it's all yours for five minutes.

[Dr. Catherine Cook, Vice-President, Indigenous, University of Manitoba]

Thank you. I'm Catherine Cook. I am a medical doctor, and I am Métis from Manitoba.

I'd like to thank you for including us in this important study.

In 2020, I began serving as the University of Manitoba's first vice-president, indigenous. My goal has been to address the gaps and barriers to equitable access for indigenous success and achievement in education and in health care for indigenous people through systems change.

Today 8.8% of the 30,000 students at U of M self-declare as indigenous. It is the largest indigenous student population in Canada, but the indigenous population of Manitoba is 18%, so it isn't reflective. We must address this gap and work together to ensure that indigenous students pursuing post-secondary education and training receive the same quality of K-12 education and have the same sense of belonging.

The challenges that existed when I was a student still exist today. Remote geography, limited capital investment for education and training sites, and program funding for education services remain major barriers. The ambiguity of financial responsibility, the scope of educational practice and the potential for areas requiring government collaboration and community partnership have never been clear. As a result, even when communities or tribal councils establish productive partnerships for program delivery, the capital investment and infrastructure on federal reserve lands is almost non-existent for training and insufficient for the programming needs.

When I began my tenure, my team committed to engage indigenous community partners in strategy development, and then COVID hit, revealing further inequities. Indigenous students living in rural and remote areas identified challenges to engaging in online learning such as poor Internet connectivity and technology, the lack of appropriate study spaces in busy households and the shortage of academic resources in their communities. Many of these challenges were shared by urban-based indigenous students.

As the pandemic continued, we hosted engagement sessions where participants identified other barriers to post-secondary education such as experiencing culture shock, homesickness and racism, the high cost of education, relocation and living expenses and the fear of losing their connection to culture. This is not new information.

We must work collaboratively to build a fluid and comprehensive continuum of education. Education is the most significant social determinant of good health and wellness for individuals and for communities. Without it, we cannot access employment that will support and sustain our families. We won't have choices for good housing, food security, healthy living or control over our lives. Everyone must feel that we have something to contribute to our families and to society in general. Living in poverty because of a lack of education is the ultimate life sentence of unhappiness and despair.

We need to look at the organizational structure of indigenous education and find new delivery models. U of M recently entered a partnership with the Mastercard Foundation's EleV program, which provides the financial opportunity to explore new opportunities that were codesigned by first nations, Métis and Inuit partners. Our main focus is to return education to the community as much as possible.

One example is a new learning hub in Pinaymootang First Nation. This hub provides a space with excellent Internet, technology and wraparound supports. It allows students attending any Manitoba post-secondary institution to access online classes and programs with the goal of developing the in-person, in-community delivery of training that's identified as a priority by the community. It's the first of a series of hubs that will be established throughout Manitoba.

The learning hubs address some of the previously mentioned systemic challenges, and they also keep young people near language speakers, culture and support systems. They provide opportunities for inspiring and mentoring students still in K-12, and they increase the chances of graduates staying in the community to work, which will contribute to building capacity and community.

We're grateful to offer our experiences working in this area. The federal government has a responsibility to invest in developing a continuum of education and to support capital investment for training and education opportunities. The continuum requires a commitment for a fulsome partnership with school divisions; tribal councils; post-secondary institutions; provincial, federal and indigenous governments; and partners in industry and philanthropy.

Together, we can develop a comprehensive approach to a continuum of education that will enhance access and support through K to 12 and will bridge entry to and through post-secondary to career development.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much, Dr. Cook. You're right on time—perfect. We appreciate it.

We'll go to the video conference now. Let's go to Kelsey Wrightson, executive director.

Kelsey, you have five minutes.

[Dr. Kelsey Wrightson, Executive Director, Dechinta Centre for Research and Learning]

Wonderful.

My name is Kelsey. I'm the executive director at Dechinta Centre for Research and Learning. I'm joining you today from Yellowknife in the Northwest Territories.

I have the great honour and privilege of working at Dechinta, where we've been delivering award-winning, indigenous-led, land-based post-secondary programming since 2010. I'm incredibly grateful for the invitation to share with you, as legislators and decision-makers, what I have the privilege of learning from indigenous learners every day as we work to support indigenous educational success.

Dechinta's classrooms are the lands, and our programs are as diverse as the north. Here in Chief Drygeese territory, you'll hear Wıìlıìdeh Yatii and children's laughter echoing across camp as students learn about research methods or land claims or the impacts of climate change on food security. You'll see infants bundled on snowmobiles, and elders on the backs of toboggans heading out to camps that they visited as young people. They are all on an educational journey that brings them home and heals.

Dechinta's family-inclusive programming was codesigned by indigenous faculty and elders to create education models that celebrate the knowledge of indigenous communities and help mitigate barriers that folks are facing when accessing post-secondary. We create learning spaces for young people that enable parents to participate in education. For those young people, seeing their family members and their community as learners and teachers enables them to see themselves in expansive education and employment pathways.

In order to support educational outcomes of children, we collectively need to be committed to the educational success of parents, family members and communities. If we want to support families and communities to learn, we need to create learning spaces that celebrate strengths and transform people's relationships to education.

University-level accredited programming at Dechinta lasts between one to six weeks and is open to people of all ages. For some students, it's the start of their education journey. For others, it renews their commitment to learning. In the past year we've had over 200 applicants to our program: 40% of those applicants needed indigenous approaches to health and wellness, and 20% requested child care to support their success.

Our job is to create programming that's accessible to diverse learners, providing comprehensive wraparound supports to ensure their success and open up diverse education and employment pathways by ensuring that the credentials registered students obtain are portable. In this, we ensure that students are supported and celebrated in every step they take towards achieving their educational goals.

Research demonstrates that the stories people tell themselves have a direct effect on their learning outcomes. When learners don't believe they can learn, they don't. The incredible thing is that, as much as these negative stereotypes dampen achievements, affirmation nurtures success. Crucially, confidence of a learner in one area impacts their success in others. When we see someone thriving on the land and being celebrated for their skills and knowledge or for the care they take with their community, this will impact the success they have in other areas of learning.

Long-term and predictable investments by Canada in community-directed indigenous education enables us to build relationships, create trust and create new programs. This is the call the government answered when supporting Dechinta through Canada's comprehensive approach in the Arctic policy framework and recognizing the centrality of education and research in supporting a healthy north. It directly supports people of all generations to imagine themselves in education. It creates meaningful work, strong and healthy communities, and new programming that reflects the diversity of educational needs and pathways. This requires the creation of a learning space where indigenous learners, teachers and elders feel comfortable, where we're learning and healing together.

I'll leave you with a quote from a Yellowknives Dene First Nation member and student of Dechinta, Bertha Drygeese:

The first sight of self-governance community [at] Dechinta brought me back...four decades...when I felt the cold, crisp air on my face—it felt like a dream which I could finally wake up to.... I felt sure of myself after practicing my culture and tradition.... It all came clear… I am home. I am here on my homeland.... I came back to myself, my land and my people.... I thought to myself, “maybe I was not lost, just disconnected”.

Mahsi cho .

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much for that testimony.

We will now go, for another five-minute round, to Blaire Gould.