Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 8th, 2023

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Good afternoon. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 54th meeting of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

We acknowledge that we meet on the unceded territory of the Algonquin and Anishinabe peoples.

Our meeting this afternoon will be in the hybrid format pursuant to the House order on Thursday, June 23, and members can be present in person or on Zoom. The proceedings will be published on the House of Commons website. The broadcast will show the person speaking and not necessarily the whole committee.

For those participating virtually, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow. You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting in French, English and Inuktitut. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, Inuktitut, English or French. Please select your language now. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately, and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings. For members participating in person, proceed as you normally would when the whole committee meeting is in person in a committee room.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. Those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer. Please remember to address your questions through the chair. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

We have a number of witnesses today. We will try to get through them as efficiently as possible. First, we'll go through the names of the witnesses and then we'll start the testimony. In person, we have Renee St. Germain, a director at the Assembly of First Nations. We have Irene Oakes, project specialist, and Dana Braunberger, research and innovation, from Headwater Learning Solutions. Joining us remotely, from the First Nations Education Council, we have John Martin and Annie Gros-Louis. From the First Nations with Schools Collective, we have Leslee White-Eye, governance director.

Thank you, everyone.

We've done the sound checks and everything is ready to proceed. I believe we'll start with Ms. St. Germain.

You have five minutes.

[Renee St. Germain, Director of Languages and Learning, Assembly of First Nations]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to start by thanking the committee for the opportunity to appear in front of you today to speak on first nations' graduation rates and the successful outcomes of our students.

I'm here representing the Assembly of First Nations as the director of languages and learning. The AFN is a national advocacy organization that works to advance the collective aspirations of first nations individuals and communities across Canada on matters of national or international nature and concern.

First nations students have the inherent and treaty right to receive an education that is in accordance with their culture, values, traditions and languages and that is free from prejudice and discrimination. Quality and culturally appropriate education is a cornerstone to the preservation and vitality of first nations societies.

The history of colonization, residential institutions, the sixties scoop and the imposition of federal and provincial laws and policies have had devastating consequences on first nations children and families, their languages, education and social structures. There is a pressing need for greater supports to address the gaps in first nations education systems.

Measuring first nations' graduation rates from coast to coast to coast provides examples of both exemplary first nations-led education systems but even more that are seeking to assert control to address the impacts of colonization and poor government supports.

An example of first nations' success includes Mi'kmaw Kina'matnewey, which represents the majority of Mi'kmaq communities in Nova Scotia through an education self-government agreement. MK continues to lead first nations and non-indigenous high school students with a consistent 90% average graduation rate.

As first nations gain control over their education systems, we are encouraged to see that more and more first nations students are completing high school both on and off reserve. In the past five years, there has been a 10% increase in high school attainment on reserve; however, the education gap remains.

The most recent first nations high school attainment rate on a broader scale indicates that 58% of first nations young adults aged 20 to 24 living on reserve had a high school certificate or equivalent compared to 93% of non-indigenous Canadians.

Approximately 54% of first nations students must leave their community to achieve a high school diploma due to lack of access to secondary schools. It is essential that provinces and public school boards are held accountable to first nations for the outcomes of our students.

First nations across the country remain resilient and committed to asserting their jurisdiction and control over their education systems. With nine completed and signed transformative education agreements, there's an estimated 30% of first nations receiving equitable funding that meets their specific needs and circumstances. These figures are expected to grow with an estimated 50 first nations currently engaging in activities to develop regional education agreements.

We look forward to seeing the benefits of these agreements provided to first nations students as they move through their primary and secondary education. With greater funding and control of their education in schools, we remain confident that first nations will continue to see progress in graduation rates and successful student outcomes.

Alongside primary and secondary education, attainment rates in post-secondary certificates, diplomas and degrees reveal an estimated 20% education gap between first nations and non-indigenous Canadians.

Across the spectrum of post-secondary education, first nations have comparable attainment rates for apprenticeships and trade certificates. Furthermore, first nations at the highest level of education attainment have higher employment rates than their non-indigenous counterparts. The demand from first nations students far exceed the money that first nations receive to support members who wish to attend post-secondary schooling. There are over 30,000 first nations post-secondary students year over year who are not funded in accordance with their treaty and inherent rights.

While our treaty partners fail to recognize these rights, investments towards closing the education gap would result in significant benefits. Among these benefits is an estimated increase in the gross domestic product by $30 billion and an additional 188,000 jobs for first nations people.

Finally, the AFN has published three reports over the last three years that provide alarming figures on the state of first nations' school conditions. These reports include identifying 202 on-reserve schools that are overcrowded and require additions. This is over half of the first nations schools in Canada.

Furthermore, as I deliver these remarks to you right now, there are more than 56 schools that require immediate replacement based on reported poor conditions or facility age. As we seek to identify solutions in programming, transformative agreements and targeted enhancements, there must be the same emphasis on education infrastructure. Graduation rates will not be accelerated with first nations students in schools that need to be condemned or in storage rooms acting as classrooms.

Thank you for your time and attention. I look forward to continuing the conversation.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much, Ms. St. Germain. That was four minutes and 58 seconds—well done.

We'll go to our friends who are here in person. From Headwater Learning Solutions, we have Irene Oakes and Dana Braunberger.

Combined, you have five minutes.

[Irene Oakes, Project Specialist, Headwater Learning Solutions]

[Witness spoke in Cree and provided the following text:]

Tanisi, Asini Iskwew ay-see-ka-soo-wan. Nekaneet oo-chi-niya.

[Witness provided the following translation:]

Hello. How are you? My name is Stone Woman. I am from Nekaneet.

[English]

Good afternoon, new honourable chairman and honourable members. Thank you for the invitation to present the great work we are doing in partnership with Headwater Learning Solutions in Alberta. It is an extreme honour. I bring greetings from Treaty 4 territory.

I'd like to acknowledge Ms. Dana Braunberger, a member of our team. She will also be available to answer any questions you might have.

We all know the dismal statistics of first nations education and the devastating impacts that has had. I have witnessed the far-reaching consequences of the one-size-fits-all approach to education that began with residential schools, day schools, provincial school systems and many others. As a lifelong educator, I have seen the growth of many great things and some not so great. The work that we are doing right now with Headwater Learning Solutions works.

I first began working with Headwater Learning Solutions in 2017, when we signed a three-year partnership with Thunderchild First Nation in Saskatchewan. The work, which we continue to do, was focused on facilitating the unique vision that Thunderchild had for the education of their youth, grounded in the needs of the students and the community. It was a transformative approach, focused on building a sustainable and scalable solution that helps prepare youth to be internationally competitive while having knowledge and pride in their identify as Thunderchild citizens in an ever-evolving environment.

Headwater Learning Solutions continues to make a commitment to the 1970s principle as defined by our leaders from that era, that of Indian control of Indian education. The work we do is highly customized to what the community has expressed it wants for the education of its youth as well as implementing the full treaty right to education as signed by our past leaders. Rather than taking a piecemeal approach to promoting and implementing what the community wants, through our authentic partnership we are able to unravel complexities to develop an integrated, systemic approach that defines education solutions more broadly to include the cultural, academic and social needs of the students.

At the end of the Thunderchild partnership, measurable success was present at every level. Eighty per cent of teachers demonstrated improved urgency, intentionality and rigour in the planning and delivery of their classes. With the development of culturally based guiding principles, which we call PISIM at Thunderchild, Thunderchild traditions, ceremonies, values and the Cree language were infused daily into the school and into the classrooms. The result was that student participation and engagement increased substantially. Nearly 70% of students were able to close their three- to five-year learning gaps in foundational reading and numeracy skills. This increased student success also fuelled increased teacher confidence and competence. The school was successful in retaining 75% of its staff for the length of the project, which is a substantial improvement to the high teacher turnover of the past.

A huge part of the success with this work is that HLS is a not-for-profit organization and is able to offer services based on the community's identified needs irrespective of profit opportunity, but it also provides the opportunity for it to engage in fund development to make up the shortfall required to address the needs of students, teachers and education leaders. Because of historical injustices perpetuated on first nations peoples and communities, there were, and continue to be, many complexities that challenge the delivery of effective education programming. The resources required to best address these complexities far exceed current funding models, predicated on provincial comparability. Targeted needs-based funding continues to be required.

Our work is built on the foundation that was instilled within me through the values and principles as lived by my late father, Gordon Oakes, who has a student centre named after him at the University of Saskatchewan. It has a portrait of a team of horses, a red horse and a white horse, pulling a wagon. The painting has two messages that we follow. It illustrates the need and promise for first nations children to be provided with a deep understanding of and pride in their own identity—their community's cultural knowledges, teachings and the language—and to be provided with the competencies to learn the cunning of the white man so that they are able to choose whatever future they want. It also reflects the importance for first nations and non-first nations people to continue to work together in a good way to address the education needs and opportunities for all our youth.

Both Dana and I being here today reflects that team of horses.

Thank you. Hai hai. Kinana'skomitina'wa'w. Thank you for listening.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much for that presentation. It was right on time as well.

We'll go via video conference to Chief John Martin, member of the chiefs committee, as well as Annie Gros-Louis, for a combined five minutes.

[Annie Gros-Louis, Educational Services Director, First Nations Education Council]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Kwe, good morning.

My name is Annie Gros-Louis, and I am the educational services director at the First Nations Education Council, FNEC. I am accompanied by John Martin, Chief of Gesgapegiag.

The FNEC is an association of first nations pursuing the common objective of exercising their full jurisdiction over the education of their communities. The association currently includes eight of the 11 nations in Quebec.

The FNEC's mission is excellence, educational success, cultural pride, as well as control of education by and for first nations.

That is why, on July 14, 2022, 22 member communities, the FNEC and the Government of Canada signed a regional education agreement to ensure equitable, predictable and sustainable funding for early childhood, elementary and secondary education for FNEC first nations.

That agreement will enable first nations to work toward improving student outcomes in a context of financial stability and flexibility, so that they can access and direct resources to better meet students' educational needs.

The FNEC itself provides an economy of scale and second-level education services, such as special education, professional development, language and culture, school administration, technology and data governance services.

The FNEC has adopted the learning schools model for its collaborative work with school teams in member communities. In this vision, the FNEC works upstream in a targeted manner with schools to develop educational directions and strategies based on data gathered by the schools themselves.

Finally, that agreement proposes clear accountability structures to operationalize and potentially measure progress, development and the achievement of its goals, including academic performance, ancestral language learning and access to specialized services.

Tiawenhk.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Okay. You fell short of the five minutes, so that's perfect.

Thank you very much for that presentation.

We have the First Nations with Schools Collective up next for five minutes.

[Leslee White-Eye, Governance Director, First Nations with Schools Collective]

Boozhoo. Hello. Bonjour.

Thank you so much to the committee for the opportunity to appear before you today.

The First Nations with Schools Collective is an inter-nation table made up of nine first nation communities in Ontario and growing. Each participating first nation has been administering their own schools—one from K-6, five from K-8, and two from K-12—for over the last three to four decades.

Many of those first first nation teachers back then became those first first nation principals, who then became those frontline leaders fighting for first nation school principal certification programs, first nation education institutes and indigenous teacher education programs. Those education leaders had the same goal back then as the FNWSC has today.

We want high-quality education systems that outperform provincial systems on a number of success indicators including revitalizing culture and graduation rates. This long-term change is clear evidence that self-determination results in positive student outcomes that have larger positive impacts many times over. Those leaders were community leaders, like you and I. They saw a gap and worked to fill it, pushed hard with willing partners.

It's time—the children began raising their voices in 2021. They are calling us to direct our attention to first nation children living right now, currently attending their home schools, our youngest generations. Our children have waited far too long, at much cost to them, for the adults, you and I, to ready ourselves to deliver on this promise.

The promise of UNDRIPA, signed in 2021, signalled Canada's intention to deliver on this promise: to find and push down the barriers to our children's freedom, according to article 14(1), to their right to a quality education, to their right to an education in their language and grounded in their culture, and to our responsibility as self-determining nations to provide it for them.

A 2023 goal of the collective therefore is to seek a legislated response for full and unfettered first nation control over first nation education, supported by a distinctions-based first nation education funding parity plus model. We have developed this model to take to a Canada-first nation table.

The funding model is led by first nations for first nations. Because of the long-standing historical, cultural and uniquely geopolitical circumstances that are first nation-Canada relations, provincial governments have no jurisdiction over our governing affairs as such, yet Canada has tied first nation education funding inextricably to provincial formulas beginning in 2019 with its interim funding approach.

We have done this work because we know that fair and equitable funding for first nation education systems in communities will have direct and immediate positive impacts on graduation rates and success outcomes. Here is why.

The means by which traditional knowledge is transferred, captured, stored and safe-guarded must evolve.

First nation life-long learning systems privilege learning about the people, their lifeways, histories and beliefs within a rich environment of love and caring. A curriculum is about our wellness, our goodness. It showcases what we want people to see about us—our community and our people.

Spiritual essence and kinship principles, their meanings and the place of these principles amongst all things learned must be re-established as a core tenet of a first nation curriculum. It is felt that these concepts are largely absent from learning these days, and learner well-being is dependent on knowing and embracing these key lifeway principles.

Communities must plan for learning in and on the homelands, no matter where community members are. First nation learners long to belong, learn, practice what it means to be Haudenosaunee, or Anishinabe in our case, on the lands that have constitutionally protected aboriginal rights, where aboriginal treaty rights and inherent rights exist.

Curriculum design is different for first nations. It involves researching, writing histories largely untold, in communities, with one another.

Curriculum design requires a robust space for continuous Haudenosaunee and Anishinabe critical thinking in the intellectual traditions of their peoples. Time to think and reflect on the teaching for curriculum development and implementation is needed, because knowledge transfer protocols are different from western ways of educating.

Time with elders to gather traditional knowledge is limited. The time is now to gather, record and pass along the traditions and knowledge. Therefore, emphasis on new teacher - adult learner supports in the transfer of knowledge about the ways of the people is of critical importance from the outset, all of which must be funded properly so that a high-quality education system, as we define it, can exist.

Because it's International Women's Day, I want to showcase the importance of language. Ikwe is the word for woman in Ojibwa. It is connected to the word aki, the Ojibwa word for earth. Both are life-givers. The word for old woman is mindimooyeh, which actually breaks down to “one who holds it all together”, which is the foundation of our most sacred governance structure, the family. Aki, the word for earth, is also rooted in the word for teacher, gekinoo'amaaged. It is the land that is our greatest teacher and our relation to her sits at the centre of these words.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much to our witnesses.

We will begin the first round of questioning. We begin with the first round. We go to Gary Vidal for six minutes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to thank all of our witnesses for your attendance today. I know you all are giving up valuable time to be here and to share your knowledge and experience with us. We are looking for some answers to push forward on some solutions to this challenge we face around graduation rates and success in schools.

I'm going to start with Ms. Oakes and Ms. Braunberger, please.

Ms. Oakes, you talked about the far-reaching consequences of a one-size-fits-all education system. You went on to share the success that Headwater has had in this two and half year relationship with Thunderchild First Nation. Very specifically you talked about measurable success, measurable success at every level, being the teacher level and increased engagement and urgency and intentionality, and rigour in planning and delivery. You talked about improvement in traditions and ceremonies and values and language being incorporated into what was going on. More importantly, and maybe the biggest thing, was the success of the actual students. You talked about some very measurable and statistical proof of the success. It's my assumption that that success you had there would lead ultimately to greater graduations or to better graduation rates. I think that's the expectation.

You never mentioned it in your comments, but in your brief you talked about Indigenous Services Canada being a partner with you. I think it's a great thing that they did that.

My question for you, though, is this: At the end of your pilot project or this program you did, was there any follow-up or any kind of outreach done by the department that would come back and talk to you about some of the success you had to determine if it would be scalable and replicable, or if it could be taken out and done in other places to achieve the same success you did there?

Was there any follow-up or any work done that would allow you to share that success and see if we could replicate it?

[Irene Oakes]

Thank you for the question. I appreciate that, Mr. Vidal.

I will answer your question, but before I do that, I will let you know that this is not a pilot. It's something that's going to be ongoing, and it's important that every first nation participate in the work that we're doing and buy into it.

The way I can answer is that I know that Thunderchild did the usual reporting that's required when you receive funding but no follow-up was done from ISC with Headwater Learning.

Thank you.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Does that surprise you in the sense that you actually achieved some very measurable successes, some very measurable outcomes, and there was no, kind of, how can we go replicate this?

I would assume that would be a little bit of a disappointment. I think the opportunity is there for you to do that. The short answer would be that I'm assuming this would be an opportunity to replicate.

[Irene Oakes]

Yes, this is a great opportunity that I think ISC might have.... Again, these are my comments, and I think the work is required. You have heard the data and the comments made by the other speakers that we're at a place in our history where we need to do some action. We're doing some action. Of course, we're very disappointed.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. Let's move on a little bit.

One of the other things in the conversations that we've had and in the presentation that you've made.... I hope I'm not leaping to any conclusions here. Please clarify.

In your experience, how important is the governance, leadership and instruction when improving education results on first nations? I think it's bigger than just the teachers. There's a governance and leadership role to play as well. I just wonder if you would have a comment on that at all.

[Irene Oakes]

Thank you again for the question.

Yes, the governance, leadership and instruction all tie in, but again, the biggest thing that needs to be included in your question is the whole aspect of culture and language. You need strong governance within the first nation that's working with us. You also need stable leadership. You need education leadership that has the skills to carry on the work that's required. Instruction...everything that we do is evidence-based. We do a lot of data. We do a lot of support.

One of the most common things we always talk about is that we're not a drive-by PD organization. We're there.

The school we work with.... We're also working with another one right now. Our team, which includes Dana, is in schools two to three weeks out of the month, supporting the teachers with regard to the culture and language. The culture and language need to come from the community. We can't use a pan-Indianism approach to culture. The language model we have been using is a totally physical response. It's just repeat, repeat, repeat. Be repetitive until they know it and its importance.

Everything is tied in together, but the governance structure within the first nation needs to be stable and very committed to supporting the work within education.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Thank you very much.

I'm sorry, Mr. Vidal. You are out of time.

We'll go next to the Liberal Party, with six minutes for Jenica Atwin.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses today. I can't help but notice that all these incredible voices and speakers are women.

I'd really like to pick up on what Ms. Leslee White-Eye was commenting on at the end of her presentation. If you could speak more broadly, what is the role of women and grandmothers in the work that's been done in steering the importance, again, of culture and language, and infusing this in education?

I have seen a lot more support from the federal government over the last few years, but really, that work is being done in community. If you can, speak more generally to the role of women in the work that's ahead.

Maybe we'll start with Ms. Oakes.

[Irene Oakes]

Thank you for that question.

Dana and I always tease about this. It's not very cultural, but the comment I make is, “You need a woman to do a man's job” in the work that we're doing. I'm sorry.

For me, as a Plains Cree woman, the woman is the backbone of everything that we do, as it is for the other Algonquin tribes. I know the woman is the backbone.

We need to elevate our women to that level, where they're seen as the spoken and unspoken leaders, because they have the traditions and the ceremonies that they need to continue to retain. In my community of Nekaneet, ceremony is important, but it's the women who determine when they occur and if they occur. Given that much power and authority, that needs to be seen, as well, within the education circles.

Again, I acknowledge International Women's Day. It's very important, and it says a lot for women to be speaking here.

Hai hai. Thank you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you.

Would the other witnesses like to comment?

[Leslee White-Eye]

Thank you for that question. It's a really important one.

I just want to shout out to Anna Marie, Bette, Joette, Patti, Maureen and Heather. They're all the education directors in the communities with the First Nations with Schools Collective.

The earlier comments were that you need good governance and you need stable leaders. The reality of their work is unbelievable. They run transportation contracts. They're developing the curriculum contracts. If they have the money to do it, they are hiring. They're retaining. They're recruiting. They're assessing their principals. They're running community engagement programs. They're trying to purchase resources. They're trying to save money on the purchase of resources. They're trying to negotiate education service agreements with their provincial school boards. They're sitting in on meetings at Chiefs of Ontario. They're sitting in on meetings at AFN. They sitting in on meetings of their PTOs.

There's no way this can continue. That's why you have this governance issue and you have this stability issue. They get burnt out, and we have to start all over with new ones. They have to get paid what they deserve. They're running entire systems. They're running early years programs, post-secondary programs, secondary engagement, the elementary program and adult learning. This is one person, but because we're women, we just keep barrelling on.

I want to hold them up and stand those women up, because that's what they've been doing. It's not sustainable without the proper funding to build a central administration office, which provincial school boards enjoy. I know those superintendents don't do all of that. They delegate, and they can because they have the people in the office to do that. That's the shortfall of this funding approach.

Meegwetch for the question.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Go ahead, Madam Gros-Louis.

[Annie Gros-Louis]

Thank you.

Since it is International Women's Day, I would like to make a special request to the committee.

When I had the floor, I used two and a half minutes of my time because I am accompanied by Chief John Martin, from the community of Gesgapegiag.

However, he did not use his time. I would like him to be given time to make his arguments, if possible.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Mrs. Atwin, you still have a minute left.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Sure.

I'll just use my time to give shout-outs to the incredible women who are doing the work back home in my riding, as well.

Lisa Perley Dutcher is running an immersion school. It's the first of its kind in this territory. That is the transformational work we need to see more of. So many elders are doing their work—

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair—

I apologize for interrupting you, Ms. Atwin.

If I understood the previous request correctly, the First Nations Education Council representatives did not have their five minutes to make their opening remarks; they only had two and a half minutes. They would like to complete their opening remarks. That is the request that was made.

Thank you.